Balancing Nomadic Freedom and Community Connection

Hey Nomads, welcome to Digital Nomad Stories, the podcast. My name is Anna Claessen and, together with my co-host, kendra Hasse, we interview digital nomads. Why? Because we want to share stories of how they did it. We talk about remote work, online business, location and dependency, freelancing, travel and, of course, the digital nomad lifestyle. Do you want to know more about us and access all previous episodes? Visit digitalnomadsdoriesco. Alright, let's go into today's episode.

Welcome to Digital Nomads Stories, the podcast. My name is Kendra and I'm your host today. Today, I'm joined by Nathalie Tucker. She's the founder and a community cultivator of the Happy Nomad Club, an online community for nomads to create meaningful connections and a sense of belonging. Nathalie, I'm super excited to have you here today and to talk more about community connections and let's see what's coming. Welcome.

Thank you. Thank you, kendra, it's great to be here. How are you doing today? Yeah, I'm doing okay. I'm doing okay, thank you. I'm in the UK at the moment and it's getting to that time of year where I'm starting to feel the cold and the dark nights are closing in. So, yeah, I'm looking forward to my next trip.

So maybe we'll directly start with you, because you shared already with me that you're already for two years in Nomad, so maybe we'll start with your Nomad journey. What was your motivation of becoming a Nomad? How does your current Nomad life look like? Maybe you can start sharing a little bit.

Yeah, sure. So I sort of became a nomad by accident. If I'm honest, it was about two years ago. We were coming out of the pandemic, so travel restrictions were lifting, life was getting a little bit back to normal and I realised that all of my work was still entirely online and that there was no need for me to be in a particular place. And I had to sort of always dreamt of having that work situation. I always thought wouldn't it be amazing if I could work from anywhere? And I just couldn't imagine what that would look like for me and the work that I did. But I found myself in that situation. I a contact of mine mentioned the digital Nomad village in Madeira and that was basically all it needed. I was off, booking my trip within weeks and so, yeah, I did my first in Madeira two years ago and I would say, for a part-time Nomad, I don't travel all the time. I probably spend most of the year in the UK, where I'm from, but I do sort of two to three trips a year of around one to three months each and, yeah, that seems to be working well for me right now.

Amazing. And then these trips. You are usually staying in Europe or you're going to Asia, latin America.

Good question. So so far I've been in Europe. Partly the time zone has been really helpful to them. Most of the work that I do is with people in the UK, so it's been really helpful to stay on the same time zone and there's been plenty to explore in Europe. But I'm about to head to Guatemala, so that will be my first experience of working whilst I am somewhere that's sort of so far away geographically and in time zone.

Amazing. I just came back from Guatemala. Maybe later I can show you some tips where we can like also for the listeners here. That could be a nice topic, and before I really would prefer to talk about your experience of community and social connection. So I think like, how was it then your experience? Because how did you came up with this idea of building the platform Happy Nomad Club? So what was your experience first with creating community and social connections when you started your journey as a nomad?

Yeah, that's a great question. So I noticed that when I was planning my trips, social connection was kind of a big factor for me and sometimes it would be okay. I know during that period I'm going to want a sense of community or I'm going to want there to be other people that I can hang out with relatively easily and that would be a big factor in me deciding where am I going to go. And other times it would be actually I want an adventure, so I feel more happy spending time on my own or I don't think I'm going to have as much energy for being in connection with other people. So I noticed that that was a real factor for me in planning my trips and I also noticed that I didn't see a lot out there that was about that aspect of being a nomad. I think there's loads of resources and loads of people talking about the practicalities of being a nomad, like what do you do for money, where is expensive to go, where's less expensive, how to deal with time zones all of those kind of practicalities of nomad life and working in a different place come up a lot. But the question of how to find community, how to meet people, what it's like to be moving around regularly, doesn't come up so much, and when I did see it showing up, I noticed it in the form of questions from other nomads mainly an online forum saying things like I'm really struggling with loneliness, how do other people cope? Or I'm in a new place and I just don't know how to meet people, so how do I meet people? What tips do people have? So, yeah, I noticed a lot of other people grappling with like yeah, feeling a sense of loneliness and maybe feeling quite alone in that loneliness, like thinking, is there something wrong with me? Am I doing it wrong and everyone else is doing it right? And so I became curious to explore that and understand more about different people's experiences and to think what can we do for ourselves to cultivate that sense of community and social connection that each of us needs?

Like it's an interesting topic and then, like, did you reach out to these people? Like when you said you know, you said you read about it, people asking about it, but then did you get also answered to their questions, Like what were they sharing really?

Yeah, sometimes, sometimes I responded to those posts and I read lots of other people's responses as well, so it was really even just that was interesting to hear how this is showing up to other people, how many people are noticing that feeling of loneliness and what are some people finding that helps. And I think I do think it's important to say that being a nomad in itself isn't lonely, doesn't have to be lonely. Not all nomads feel lonely all of the time but there's an element of actually just being a human. There's a risk of loneliness. It's something that we all experience at some time in our lives, and the nature of being a nomad and moving regularly and maybe being away from the people that we're closest to and not having the consistent connection with people means that how we might address loneliness for ourselves might look a bit different. Yeah, and I'd say it's more sort of the last three or four months I've been talking to I had a survey out, I've had lots of conversations, I've run a couple of events, so I've heard from, say, 30 or more other nomads about their experiences of loneliness and connection and that's been really fascinating.

Oh, but that's great. So then, when you saw people texting about or writing about that they might feel lonely, whatever did you sometimes reach out to them and ask them and had, like, some conversations with them.

Well then, it's a really good question. So I occasionally responded. Sometimes I just noticed it, but then my day would carry on right, we're all busy and so I noticed them showing it more and more. So I did start to respond, and what I found myself thinking is I want to respond to this question, that I want to give it the time it deserves to give a useful response. And the other thing I did was reach through other people's responses, because I found it really interesting to hear different people's experiences, and I noticed two kinds of responses to those posts, if I'm honest, one really kind of empathetic, compassionate I'm sorry you're feeling that way. Here are some things that I do that help. Those are most of the responses, fortunately, but you do also occasionally see people who say things to the effect of if you're feeling that way, then the problems with you, which is quite a flash thing to say to somebody who is putting themselves out there saying that they're they're struggling with something. So I, but I do think it's important to acknowledge that being a nomad in itself isn't inherently lonely, and not all nomads feel lonely all of the time and perhaps, yeah, but loneliness is something that can affect any of us, whatever our circumstances are, and the nomads who are feeling lonely because our lives are different. There may be different ways for us to address it.

Now I can imagine one of our listeners thinking oh yes, I sometimes feel lonely, but then how should I deal with it, right? So do you have some practical recommendations maybe? Or sometimes, what do you do when you feel lonely? And then maybe I also can share some of my tips.

Yeah, I would love to hear your experiences. Thank you, kendra. So I've heard two different types of loneliness among nomads that seem to be really common. So the first is sort of a loneliness which might be the classic one that we think of most easily, of an on my own or in spending a lot of time on my own and I would like to be spending more time with other people and feeling more connected to other people. And the other kind I hear showing up is this sense of I'm still connected to lots of people but I don't feel like they understand me or I don't feel like they understand my lifestyle. So I think a lot of nomads have that sense of their living life, differently maybe to the people they grew up with, the people they're closest to at home, and they feel misunderstood in their life and there's a loneliness in that as well. And so I think there's like different ways to address both those types of loneliness and possibly the first way actually I'm going to put this across both the film. For me, the first thing is in self-awareness is asking myself what do I need right now in terms of connection, and sometimes it's enough. Sometimes I get what I need in my day-to-day work because I might be interacting with colleagues. If I feel I need a bit of face-to-face, it can be enough to go to a cafe or to repeatedly go to the same cafe and have that little bit of connection with the barista, and other times I really want to sit down with another person and have a deeper conversation. So I think the first step is to get to know yourself and to think about what do I need in terms of social connection, which aspects of that might be ticked by keeping in touch with friends or family back home, and what gaps might I need to fill when I'm in any place. And then we can start looking at how do we fill those gaps. And yeah, I've got some more thoughts for curious to hear what's coming out for you as well.

Thanks for sharing. I completely resonate with it. I also I can identify these two types of loneliness. So the first really you're said with someone like connecting really with other people, and they are that you feel like alone by yourself, and sometimes for me it's like also it adds them to this point that you think other people, other normans, are all the time hanging out together and it causes also this fear of missing out and this anxiety that you want to be there but you don't know where. You know in this overwhelms of possibilities but in the end not finding so. For example, I'm currently in Medellin and apparently Medellin is the hotspot of digital normans. So just by knowing this fact, it adds this pressure to me or to the people here. Oh, it's the hotspot of normans, so I need to meet other normans, I need to go to meet ups, whatever, but then sometimes it's also not so easy to find them. You know then there are some in some Facebook groups and the A-bots group, but until you get there and then it's, then it's also for me interesting to understand what is really the need behind there. Is it that I want to feel part of this community because I am expected, or it's expected when we are Medellin, or do I really have this inner need of connecting to someone? And that's different. And the first, when I feel no, it's more of expectations of others or how I should, what I should do, then it's nice to understand that maybe I just want to have a nice time with myself, going to a nice coffee with a book, and then it's fine. And then I usually get the answer journaling. So I write a lot down. So and as soon as I get feeling this loneliness, maybe mixed with overwhelms, anxiousness, fear of missing out, I sit down and I usually ask myself my heart, like what is it what I really need? What is it what I'm really currently feeling to? And then the other thing is what you said, and this is sometimes I also feel that you said you're connected, like with other people. You may be in a group, but in a group you feel alone, right, because with them you feel connected. And this I learned for myself that sometimes it's not digital norm, it equals Genome, it within the digital nomads are so many different communities maybe the ones who go to bars and drink and Taste the best cocktails, others who are more conscious, who would like to do yoga together, others were like Super-entreprenuers and love to work 60 hours per week. So I understood, like for myself, what and who am I looking for. So I'm not in particularly just looking for nomad groups, but for this communities I'm like more in this conscious world, you know. So I look for those conscious communities in Medellin and they are also so many experts, so many nomads. So I feel it's yeah, and while I'm talking, I'm just getting the idea. It's what you said. In the end, it's all about understanding yourself and loneliness is a nice tool or nice way that shows us oh, there's maybe something you can look into. You haven't understood yet or you can take more care.

Yeah, yeah, I love that and like, really resonate with what you're saying about. It's not just about being with another person who. We are both digital nomads. That doesn't mean that we are necessarily going to connect, and You're reminding me of some experiences I've had in the past where, so, when I'm going to a new place, if I'm thinking that I do want to meet other people and I Want to feel that sense of connection with community, the best way that I've found to find people has actually been Researching online before I go. So a lot of places will have a Facebook group or a slack group when you can connect with other digital nomads in that place, and that's a great way in to kind of find out what's happening, what are the meetups that go on, where can I go to meet people? So that's a kind of helpful first step. Then you've got to actually go out and meet people, and Sometimes I've found that maybe the first one or two events I go to, they haven't clicked for me. I haven't. I haven't managed to have a good conversation with someone who felt like my kind of person. I've met some nice people and it's been really nice and it's been really nice to have that connection and to learn from different people. But maybe I feel like, okay, well, I haven't quite found my place in this yet, I haven't found the people that I'm gonna really want to do these kinds of activities with, and and Sometimes I've had to put myself out of my comfort zone and go back again. You know, try some different events, keep going back, and I think there's almost there's sort of like where are you looking? Are you looking in the right place to find, to find people? And then then it's a bit of a numbers game. Right, you've got to meet the right people. Maybe you also have to meet a lot of people on the way. And the one thing that I have really appreciated actually is that, even when I'm going to these meetups and I maybe it's not gelling immediately for me I have generally found that the other nomads I've met have been pretty welcoming and open people. So, even if you both know we're not gonna be lifelong friends, you still have a nice conversation with people and you still feel that you're welcome and accepted in that space, which, which I really appreciate about the digital nomad world.

Yeah, that's beautiful, it's a beautiful edition and it I just want to add to it it's. I just thought it's also all about expectations, because if we go to this first event and have the expectation To meet, like directly, 10 people we always will hang around with yeah then we put away too much pressure on it. We then we cannot even able authentic conversations, right? So I think it's really what you said, just the numbers. Sometimes we need to go back and it depends like who's there and like maybe not having too high expectations, because it's also kid.

Yeah yeah, absolutely, and not putting too much pressure on ourselves, right Like it's not a failure if if you didn't Make 10 new friends that night beautiful.

I would like to talk more about your happy nomad club. So, as I understood it, exactly what we were talking about now loneliness, making meaningful connections. So the intention of the Happy nomad club is to have online meet house with other nomads For having this authentic conversation and connect with others. White, or what is it exactly about? Maybe you? Can share it.

Yeah, it's a little bit in evolution at the moment, if I'm honest. My initial vision was that we would have this thriving and active online community and people would feel a sense of connection to this group and maintain that feeling of connection wherever they went, and that's definitely still part of my vision. But through talking to people through listening to people mainly and hearing, like, what are the specific challenges that they're facing, what are the types of needs they have and how might those be met has got me thinking about it slightly differently and now I'm thinking, yes, the community would be great. That feels like something that is going to build slowly over time, and also thinking there's something else about a sort of I don't know what to call it yet, but some sort of resource hub or something I'm thinking about. It is a really happy Nomad club to give people access to opportunities to feel that sense of connection and community. So that involves offering regular online events where anyone who considers themselves a Nomad is welcome. So that might be, you know, digital Nomad, as we're talking about. It could be an expert, it could be someone who's recently moved somewhere new and who's craving that social connection. They can come to our regular online gatherings as a group, and that's where we do activities. We have some kind of conversation games to get people talking and to really feel a sense of connection, to go beyond the superficial first time meeting someone conversations that we might normally have. So that's opportunities to experience that. I'm launching a coffee club which will give people the opportunity to be matched with another Nomad, to meet one on one every month, so that will also most likely be online, and so that's sort of those are the opportunities to connect and feel that sense of community. Something else that I've really heard from people, especially when it comes to community, is about the importance of an in-person aspect of it, and so you mentioned before we were recording about the retreats that you ran. I think that that could be a great way for Nomads to experience a sense of community. Something else I'm thinking about is there are like you were talking about your own, medellin, and you know there are, and that's a great place for conscious Nomad community. There's so many different communities around the world where Nomads can go and feel that sense of belonging, but they're not always easy to find. Almost sometimes feels like luck if you stumble upon them. So I'm thinking what and, yeah, what might be a useful tool to help Nomads find their next location, based on where they are going to feel a real sense of community, based on their interests. The need, and then the other side of it that I'm thinking about is skills for building social connections. So I don't know about you, but I was not taught anything in school about how to make friends, how to have good conversations with people, how to like, build and maintain relationships, and we kind of go through life thinking that it's a given, we all know how to do that, and but we don't necessarily. And there are some really simple tools that we can use to help and have better conversations and to connect with people in a way that we really want to. And so, yeah, I'm thinking about what kinds of tools would be useful to make available to people, or what would it be like to maybe run a cohort program where people get to practice using these tools with each other over a period of time. So, yeah, those are my ideas at the moment. As I said, it's an evolution and I'm sure that the direction will ultimately be shaped by the people who come and join and what really lands and works and suits people.

No, it sounds amazing. I love it that you have this approach of a playground, you know. So just experience and see what works. I, for example, love this coffee idea because then it's like you are like a little bit more flexible. You just discuss with this person what time and you just have a nice coffee break, you know, and I think that's a, that's a beautiful idea, and you're flat. I think it's really needed and it's a lot of benefit. I'm already on the mailing list, so if people ask them how can they can join. I think we put the link in the show notes. So I guess, adding to your mailing list and when I was thinking about it, when you were talking, I think of the beauty of digital normat is that we can live in both worlds and the online and in the offline world. So it's amazing. Like me, I love to connect also with this podcast, sometimes with people online first, and then it turns out that we have the same place, you know, and then we have our offline meeting and I think this is a is a beautiful way also like why I love the digital normat community so much. So it's not, your friends are always at the same place and when you're traveling, you don't have them, then it's all your travel, and then there's a friend waiting for you, and we can meet these friends through the online connections. Yeah.

And the next online event that I'm running, I'm doing in partnership with a co-living place where the founder of that community has been talking to me about their desire to stay connected with people once they've left. So they started with a face to face connection and want to continue that as an online connection. So, yeah, it works both ways and it's great to have both of those options, amazing.

Like, as we said in the beginning, guatemala, so maybe someone is waiting to talk about Guatemala. Where are you going in Guatemala?

So I'm going to be mainly based in Antigua and I am for the first time I'm doing a co-living, like you know one of those months long co-living, so a group of us will come together and we'll all live together for a month in Antigua. So yeah, that's also part of my experimentation with community and understanding my own social need, and I know very little about Guatemala, so definitely excited to hear your tips.

I was in San Marcos by the Lake Aditan and I just was so happy in those two places that I didn't have the need to travel around, if I'm honest. And so, yeah, they're, like I would say, the best places to go. And in Antigua it's like this little colonial town, you know, with a lot of nice coffee places Amazing, yeah, cute coffee places to work. So for me it was easier to find their digital moments when I just went out with my computer working in a coffee and then talking about the social connections, sometimes being brave to talk about the people. So this is another thing. Maybe we can add to there that sometimes we feel, oh, what happens if I talk to this person? Nothing, because they are also happy that you talk to them because they might ask it, and also, like I experienced also this co-living that are also like amazing when you arrive to a new place. But, like for Guatemala also, what could be interesting for our listeners is that, yeah, you have like quite good internet in Antigua. What is the price is okay and I felt safe there. You can do nice hikes in the mountains. You have little events from wellness like yoga to dancing salsa and bachata together, having food chores. So this is nice a lot of moments and then. But where's the hotspot of international people? Is it this lake, atidal? And in San Marcos is a city of conscious people. So every day you can go, every hour you want. There's a yoga class, a woman's circle, a man's circle, a conscious dance, some coaching Whatever you are searching for. You find there Plenty of vegan restaurants. It's kind of the hippie community. And then you have San Juan there. That's more for party people, yeah, so I think it's for you. If it's the first time abroad, or a few things a long time, I think it's a great location Because there are a lot of international people also, but also the locals. They are so kind, so open to meet new people, to meet new cultures there. If Spanish is an important sector, if you want to meet locals, they usually don't speak English, so it's good there to have some basic of Spanish. That's always good to know for long nights. Do you have any question in particular?

I don't know if I do. I love that. That was so useful. I'm definitely going to have to spend some time at the lake doing some yoga. I'm really excited for the coffee. Coffee's quite important to me, so very much looking forward to having some good coffee there and I'm glad to hear that about Spanish. I have spent some time in South America before, but this will be my first time in Central America and I'm really looking forward to learning and connecting with the new culture and I'm glad that I will be forced to use my Spanish. I think, yeah, good to practice that. Yeah, thank you for sharing that. I am excited for the nature as well. Curious to hear if you visited any of the volcanoes and did any of those things.

I mean, we're on the lakes. It's like, so is the lake and such a, so powerful and beautiful, just swimming there, being surrounded by the volcanoes, and there are so many high possibilities for the sunset, for the sunrise. Also meeting the Maya, the Maya culture there. It's nice and yeah, so if you're looking for nature, you will find it. There's just so, like in Antigua. They're also like every day starting tours to some volcanoes, so that's possible. And like now, thanks for bringing up the topic of Guatemala and because I'm realizing, in the end, for us, no, everything is about connection, connecting to nature. You're staying in a co-living to connect to others you know Spanish, to connect to locals. So this brings me to another question, and I think you're one of the experts there what are for you, what would you say are recommendations that people learn to be better in getting connections with other people? Because you also said maybe your platform, the digital nomad club, will have the skill sharing. So what are maybe? Like to finish a little bit, to close the circle of this episode, what would you say are some an important skill share for creating connections you want the people to give, or listen to us to take away?

Yeah, thank you, I love that question. I want to pick up on something you mentioned before as well, because you talked about that just have a conversation with someone. Like if you're in a cafe and you see someone else say hello and I don't know about you, but when I'm out and somebody unexpectedly chats to me, it gives me such a buzz, like genuinely that can make my day. Just having a random chat with someone when I'm out and about. And there's actually scientific evidence that shows that those they call them micro interactions, so like if you had a chat with the person serving you in a shop, like you had a real chat with them, even if it was just two minutes. Those interactions have a meaningful impact on our mood and how we feel. So I think it's also helpful. I think about connection not just in terms of, like the really meaningful, lasting relationships I have, but also on those smaller everyday levels, like to remind ourselves that we can have those moments of connection and they all add up. And so one thing I'm thinking is one tip for practicing connecting more meaningful is, like it's okay to start small, practice small and then practice be bolder and practice bigger. So that's the things that I find really helpful. And then I've been playing with and noticing others doing really well as well, actually is one is approaching every conversation with curiosity. So sometimes it can be easy to go into a conversation with a new person thinking about myself, like how am I coming across, what do they think of me, and that's distracting and I'm not really connecting with the other person if I'm thinking about myself. So I'd say, when we go in with curiosity and we think, what do I, what can I learn from this person, or what do I really want to know about their experience, and then I'm going to ask questions that allow them to talk about their experience and that's going to be enjoyable for them. And a big part of curiosity is listening. I think it's easy for all of us to think we're listening all of the time, but so often we're listening, thinking about what we're going to say next, or we might be evaluating or judging what the person is saying, thinking do I agree, do I disagree? Do I like that, do I dislike it? So we're not really fully present and listening to that person. So if we can listen with an open mind and listen to understand instead of respond, then that that opens the door to a different kind of connection. So I think those are the top two skills. I love them. And then there's one tool that I that comes from, something called authentic relating, which I have been finding really interesting to think about recently, and it's about the three levels of conversation. It highlights that when we're in conversation with each other we're usually at one of these three levels. We could be at the informational level, where we're kind of sharing facts and information, like I'm in London right now, you're in Columbia, it's dark here. That's information, personal information, which might be like I might say to you oh, kendra, I was like I was feeling really anxious about doing this podcast because I've never done one before and, yeah, that's what was going on for me at the start of this conversation. So that was me sharing a bit of personal information. The second level, and then the third level, is relational, and relational is when we talk about what's happening here and now between the two of us. So I might build on what I said before and say but now that you're here and it's a conversation it's not me doing a monologue, expected to be an expert in everything I'm feeling much more energized and I'm enjoying the conversation. So thank you for giving me that space. So yeah, that's the third level, which is relational, and we need all of those levels of conversation. If we spent all of our time in one of them, we'd probably go mad. But the personal and relational types of conversation can help us to connect with people more deeply. And so if you're talking to someone and you're thinking I'd like to spend more time with this person and get to know them better and you want to build that deeper level of connection, then you might think about how you could spend more time talking about what each of you thinks of things, things that each of you cares about, how you feel about things, and to talk about what's going on between the two. You know what you notice about when you're with them Amazing.

I feel it was so perfectly that I don't want to comment on it, to destroy it. I feel it's so perfect to think with, also, the listeners who stayed until the end. I feel it was a super nice closing for this episode. Audrey, you have anything else you want to add? I mean your information. We were put in the show notes. If people want to reach out to you. Any last thoughts, something I should have asked if there's a fear, something you still want to say?

I guess just to say that, like, community is about the people who come right. So when it comes to Happy Nomad Club, I really want to invite other people to join and to make it our community. And, yeah, anyone who's resonated with the topics of this podcast, I would love to meet you and have a conversation about it, because I'm learning so much and. I'm really enjoying it, and so, yeah, thank you, Kendra, for giving me the space to do this exploring out loud. I really, really enjoyed it.

Thank you, Thanks for having you and I also feel I want just to say to the listeners I hope we meet in this Happy Nomad Club in some point via video and person. I think it's a beautiful idea.

I would love to see you at our next event.

Yeah, we need no more people to join it because I love those spaces, so thanks to you also to create it and share about it. Thank you so, but now, thank you, have a nice day.

Take care, bye-bye.

And that's it for today. Thank you so much for listening. I appreciate it very, very much. I would appreciate it even more if you could leave a review on Apple Podcasts for me. That way, more people can find this podcast, more people can hear the inspiring stories that we're sharing, and the more people we can impact for the better. So, thank you so much if you are going to leave a review. I really appreciate you and I will see you in the next episode.