Discovering Freedom and Creativity as a Digital Nomad

Speaker 1: Hey Nomads, welcome to Digital Nomad Stories, the podcast. My name is Anne Claessen and, together with my co-host, Kendra Hasse, we interview digital nomads. Why? Because we want to share stories of how they did it. We talk about remote work, online business, location independency, freelancing, travel and, of course, about the digital nomad lifestyle. Do you want to know more about us and access all previous episodes? Visit digitalnomadstories.co. Alright over to Kendra for today's interview. 

Speaker 2: Welcome to Digital Nomad Stories, the podcast. My name is Kendra and I'm your host today. And today I'm joined by Vic Halley and he is working at Mind Valley where he's doing the production of online courses, and I think that's also enables him to be a digital nomad travelling the world while working. And he's also the founder of an artistic community right now in Tallinn, a DJ, and he facilitates hand-balanced workshop, so I'm super excited to have him here today. I think it will be an inspirational podcast episode. Let's see what's coming out of it. Welcome, Vic. 

Speaker 3: Nice to join you today, hello thank you so much for having me here. Yeah, it's great. 

Speaker 2: So where are you right now? 

Speaker 3: Right now I'm in Tallinn. I'm right out the office of Mind Valley in Tallinn. This is where I would say that I'm based in Tallinn, and then I try to spend few parts of the year here or there. You know, Tallinn it's a lovely city, it's very beautiful. I love living here. But the winter gets so hard because it's super north, it's like in Estonia, it's north of Europe. For people who don't know Estonia or Tallinn, think of Helsinki or Stockholm. It's like the same latitude, so it's fucking north, and winters get really cold and dark. You know, here is like you barely get to see the sun in the winter. So this is a good time to escape and do the nomad thing. But right now we're getting up to springtime and summer and that is perfect. To be here, Tallinn for some time now. 

Speaker 2: Nice, so you're just back in Tallinn for the spring. 

Speaker 3: Exactly Escaping the winter. Everybody who lives here and they can do it, they do it At least two, three months. You know you want to escape and then come back and have the rest of the year. The magic of the city is very, very charming. 

Speaker 2: And was this also your motivation behind becoming a digital nomad? that you wanted to escape the winter, or what is your story Like? how did you become a digital nomad? 

Speaker 3: The thing is, i've always been a freelance almost all my life, and only now I'm working for a company. I think it's the first time in so many years more like 15 years, they didn't work for a company. I've always been freelancing, even if having like tight collaborations with some companies, but always on my own right, so I could always choose where to work, when to work, how to work, for whom to work. Having the ability to choose that's what I define as freedom. Right, that you can like get to the side what you do. It's not like you will always do what you want, but at least you can choose how do you prioritize your life. And for me, having this freedom has always been a very, very important value. It gives me life, i don't know, it makes me feel much more engaged with everything when I get to choose what I engage with, rather than I feel worse to engage with something. And many times I've been working from home or from cafes or from whatever. And now, honestly, it's been a long time. 

Speaker 3: I didn't travel long, long time, way too long, but three years ago I was living in Slovenia, for instance. Before that, i had been living in India, in Goa. Before that, like in between, i was living in Barcelona And now I'm based in Thailand, but again, like when I came, escaped the winters, i do it. And the digital nomad is something very attractive, basically because you can get to the side where you're going to be. That's it. And as long as you can continue to do your work properly which is something that I would like to talk to you about in a few seconds But as long as you can manage that, it's really cool. It gives you the ability to choose. That's it. I give a lot of value to that. 

Speaker 2: And for you, the whole motivation and also the inspiration you find in being a digital nomad is the freedom and the ability to choose. 

Speaker 3: Yeah, that's it. Then everything else comes around right, and it's beautiful and it's challenging. At the same time It's like not everything is so easy, right, but it's a trade-off. Everything in life is a trade-off And for me, the trade-off in this case, in this time of my life where I don't have a family that I have to carry with me or whatever I try to keep my life very light, lightweight as much as I can, if I can fit everything in one backpack and a suitcase, and with that, being able to move around and just have everything I need in a tiny space and a lot of adaptability, because when you are moving to different places, you need to always find a way to feel comfortable, whichever are the circumstances right. 

Speaker 3: So reducing your life to bare minimums, of necessity allows you to find that adaptability very easily and then being able to enjoy it, and for me, that's a trade-off Right now. This is something I value a lot. It gives me access to a lot of experiences that otherwise they wouldn't happen and exposure to many transformational opportunities, situations, people, especially the people. That's the one thing that I value the most, as well that getting in touch with different people With very different mindsets, because they are in very different places, right, and for me that's a trade-off right now. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, and so I understand that for you also, like the freedom means the place where you are And what you just said, this lightweight, like the freedom of not having too many things, the freedom of surrounding yourself with different people. What else do you mean with freedom And what is like, maybe also like the opposite of it, what is really like this challenge of having this lifestyle? 

Speaker 3: Freedom is always a very deep question, right? It's not easy to answer that. I think freedom is a value that gets reflected in different aspects of your life in different ways, but the way that I see myself being free again is the ability to choose, and that carries a lot of responsibility at the same time. So a high degree of freedom is really very closely tied together with a strong responsibility, because then everything is on you And finding freedom is something very attractive and it feels extremely good, as long as you can sustain your own integrity on making those choices, because you have no one else to blame. 

Speaker 3: When you have the freedom to choose, it's your choice. You cannot go and blame someone else for choosing for you how you should live or whatever. It's all about you, right. Again, it's a trade-off, right, like what do you want in life really? And I always prefer to go. 

Speaker 3: I have this level of integrity with myself as much as I can, which sometimes is very, very challenging. But if it's challenging and then you make the wrong choices and then your freedom screws you up, then at least you have the ability to also own it right, to own the mistakes and to own, at the same time, the lessons that this is teaching you And that gives me a platform to learn, to explore, to grow, to expand myself, to find myself in different situations and get to know myself better, and these are things that I appreciate most in life. So let's say that having these contacts in life is a good platform for all of these qualities to come alive right, and that gives you a good life quality. If those are the things that you're looking for, which are like I believe in yours as well. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, i can completely resonate with it. I feel like this freedom of being a digital nomad allows us to really embrace our authentic selves, because we always have the possibility to understand who do we want to be, who are we really? how does certain circumstances make us feel and then experience us in different situations You normally don't have if you're all the time at a fixed place, right With the same people, with the same job. So it really enables us to grow And, yeah, it's amazing. And then what you say, i really also can resonate with the fact of we're having the entire responsibility And this for some listeners I know sometimes it's overwhelming of being a digital nomad that you have so many possibilities because it is where to start, where to choose, and that's like it's really important knowing what is really what you like about being it. 

Speaker 2: You know like. What is this that gives you every day like? this engine behind that makes you every day like? again deciding and being the integrity, as you say. 

Speaker 3: Yeah, i think this is the dark side of having freedom, especially like this life of digital nomad or whatever. There's a dark side to it, and it's the fact that it can be overwhelming sometimes because you get to, you get to be presented with many choices, and that forces you to be reassessing yourself all the time, all the time, all the time, and that can be too much, because if you want to have a proper assessment of yourself, you need to dedicate time and you need to have a lot of awareness about it. That sometimes is like the times that I'm living here in Tallinn and life becomes more steady. Let's say, everything becomes easier in a way, because I assess what I want to live once And that choice is valid for like six months or nine months or whatever. Right, so I don't have to choose every day. What I'm going to be eating tomorrow, where I'm going to be sleeping tomorrow, is nice, you made that choice. It's something else that I free from my mind. Now this piece of mind is ready to work in something else. So, in a way, i feel more productive, maybe when I'm in one place, rather than jumping from place to place every week. 

Speaker 3: Actually, when I was in Colombia this winter for like four months. The first six weeks were like that, were like jumping from place to place. I was really eager to see a lot because it had been a long time I didn't travel, but that had a big toll on me And after six weeks I felt like I can't handle this shit anymore. I need to settle down in one place. I went to Ecuador, a tiny little village in the mountains, very little distractions, and I spent five weeks there just like putting myself together, because six weeks of just moving around and jumping from place to place they broke all my routines. All of them were broken. I was not going to the gym, i was not following my daily routines and I was like every day with this anxiety of what am I going to do next? Where am I going to go next? What is the best choice? What is the best flight? What am I going to sleep? What is cheaper? What should I eat? I have no idea which are the restaurants in the area. 

Speaker 3: Like all these things you know can become very overwhelming. Like little things in life that normally you have very clear. Suddenly all of them become again a challenge on top of the challenge that you're already having in your life, whatever it is, you're someone who really wants to make the most out of it. You're probably throwing yourself into some big challenges and projects and whatever. That's already very brain consuming, and then the daily little things become also part of that And why It can be too much. So you have to take it with a grain of salt and try to figure out which is your perfect balance of enough steadiness and enough craziness madness like the chaos and the order right, and then you have to put it together and navigate this line in the middle. This is the magic of living. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, no, i love what you just said. I feel it's really like this dance of being like, okay, stuck in one place and really saying, okay, i will be here, and then, like this adventure, learning something new. And I for myself decided now also, after like one year of being in different places, at least I want to be one month, or the best would be two months, in one place, because it's exactly the same, if you are like, if I'm all the time going on to another place, I don't have the headspace to really focus on my business. And I mean, for me it's really important also to be able to do my routines, you know, like my me time in the morning with my coffee, like wherever I can have my coffee, my meditation, my journaling, i feel at home. It's okay, but I cannot choose like change, like every day. 

Speaker 2: So I love it that you say it, because sometimes it can be too overwhelming if we go too often to another place because we need to organize all the logistics And then we don't have really time to work, and then it stresses either I don't work or I don't spend time for myself, and then it bows, you know. So I really try. I think this one month, two months is nice to not have this fear of missing out, because I feel if we are all the time traveling, then the fear of missing out is becoming bigger and bigger, because we want to discover all the touristic activities, we want to discover all the nice restaurants, the co-working places, meet people, but you know, but it's also super important And I feel even more so as a journalist to take the time for yourself to reflect, to listen. What do you really want? Because you are learning every day so much and you need time to integrate it. 

Speaker 3: The fear of missing out is like a big thing. It's gosh, it's chasing you, it's just scary, motherfucker. The fear of missing out. I think it's maybe the one trigger that makes us want to move around because we want to discover right. It appeals to the sense of curiosity And I think all of us who are in this lifestyle is because, to some degree, we are curious. 

Speaker 3: I am very curious, but at the same time, the dark side of it, the counterpart, is formal, it can eat you alive. It creates me a lot of anxiety, so I had to learn how to deal with it and I still struggle a lot. Like many times, there's so much going on around me and I can help to be aware of everything, and especially with social media, like you cannot not be aware of things that are happening around you. It's weird that you don't know that something was going on And at the same time, it's like you cannot be in everywhere at the same time. So it's just chill and try to make the most out of whatever you are, whatever you're doing. Just do the most out of it so that it compensates for not being somewhere else, right, but that's again another level of anxiety. Like now, i need to make this crazy good and you never find time to chill And just say, like you know, life will happen anyway. So it's a delicate balance. Do you also struggle with this? 

Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's like now. I was like the last five weeks in Guatemala where I could by the Lake Atitan And I had my little tiny house by the lake. And that was amazingly, because it's a little village, san Marcos de la Laguna, where you have all the spiritual things going on. But then I was okay, i will be here six weeks, so then I don't need to do everything in one week, you know. So I thought, okay, if I don't go today to the Ecstatic Dance, i can go there next week because it's every Sunday And things like this. that helped me. 

Speaker 2: But yeah, i also have done a lot of formal work because sometimes I decide, okay, today is the day for me, i don't want to do anything, i won't meet anyone. And then on the next day in social media you see the pictures and it was the most amazing party and you missed it right. And then again this fear of missing out or starting. But I feel, the more aware I become of it, the more accepted that I can have it. I can integrate it better in my day to day And then also be prepared, like now when I take a decision, i'm saying myself okay, maybe if today I go to meeting A instead of meeting B. Maybe tomorrow I will think, oh, i should have gone to meeting B, but no, i just decide now for meeting A. It will be good like this, because it's also another thing. 

Speaker 2: I feel this point of time that everything when you're traveling, also time seems like flying And I'm working on my mindset to be more in an abundance with time And I realize, when I'm present, when I'm not thinking what else could I have done, but really enjoying that moment, time is not flying, i really be in time and can live it And it's an abundant in that moment. So, yeah, it's like all those little pieces we learn as being a digital nomad right, it's? 

Speaker 3: like an endless journey. It's a journey. 

Speaker 2: So cool. Let's talk a little bit, then, about your work, because you're doing so many interesting things, i don't know what you want to start talking about. 

Speaker 3: I don't know. You ask out of curiosity what triggers you to create? I do different things which are in different fields, because I don't know. I'm very curious, so I've been doing one thing, another thing, another thing. So eventually I'm at the point of my life where I'm putting them together and finding a way to make them work. 

Speaker 2: Maybe the one, because I can imagine for our listeners it's interesting also for the one who start. What is this job that sustains you financially, that gives you this peace of mind? 

Speaker 3: Yeah, the financial sustainability now comes from Mind Valley. This is like my main work, and here what I'm doing is for people who don't know Mind Valley. Mind Valley is like probably the biggest platform in the world in terms of online education for personal transformation. The idea is to have an online university where you can learn everything that they didn't teach you at school. But it's crucial for life going from how to live your life with a better mindset for business, for family relationships, love relationships, health, fitness, how to take care of yourself, how to create more abundance in your life, how to be more organized, more productive all the things that eventually give you some sort of life quality that they did not teach you at school, because school is assuming that this is to be taught at home, but at home we are not getting taught these things either, because you know parents didn't get any education in that. So that's what we do at Mind Valley we create online courses on this, and me particularly I mean the department of production of these courses. So, basically, we have like the biggest authors in the world in every subject. They come here and they create an online course where they explain very practical tools to actually reach the outcomes that they are very good at right And what I do is I guide those authors in the process of creating an online course, because many times they are like very good at giving talks, writing books, doing their own workshops, whatever like they are so experienced and all of that. but then when it comes to creating an online course, that's a very specific thing. It has all of an engineering behind right How to organize all this information that these brilliant people have in their minds, how to break it down into lessons so that the students can actually follow up, you know, and how to make it interesting, how to make it challenging, but not too much, how to make it interesting and entertaining, but also transformational, so that we give you some work that you have to do. So it's all a combination of little tricks that you have to like adjust to actually have like the perfect rhythm not too long, not too short, you know. 

Speaker 3: So this is what I enter in. I define myself kind of like an I do the architecture of the information, let's say, or I help them do the architecture of the information, and then, when everything is laid out, then we actually film the online course and then the role is different. Then I have to be there like being like a film producer in a way, being in the stage and helping direct the author into recording it properly, and there's a lot of things involved, but it's very cool. It's a very creative process. I love the creative part of it. 

Speaker 3: Like sitting down with these people is already super inspiring because they are brilliant what they do. So only being around them is already teaching you a lot, and at the same time, it's very challenging because every project is different. It requires something different Every person that you're working with so close. These authors, like all of them, have different personalities and you need to figure out exactly how to help them the best. So there's a lot of coaching involved in there and a lot of creativity as well. That's the most fun part, so I love it. It's very cool. 

Speaker 2: And when you say sitting down with the people, so can you do this job online or do you need to be in Thailand for the meetings? or is it also a video? 

Speaker 3: For the most part, you can do it online. Actually, there's many people in my team who are spread across the world. I would say most of us are in Europe, actually, so more in Asia, because the main office is in Kuala Lumpur in Malaysia. So, yeah, the team is kind of divided between those two locations, but I was doing it for the winter from Colombia. It becomes more challenging because the time zone is really fucked up in America if you want to synchronize with Europe and Asia at the same time. 

Speaker 3: I was having meetings at one in the morning, three in the morning. That's not cool And this challenging and actually what I was talking about before, that being a normal digital nomad can be really cool, but it can also be very challenging And I had to pay a toll on this thing And in the winter my productivity was not as good as it should have been, especially when it comes to like teaming up with others. It becomes more challenging because you're like so far away in time zone, so the communication becomes more difficult And, yeah, it's challenging, like now. When I came back, they told me look, would rather not have you go anywhere now for like a while until you can prove that you can actually synchronize better with your team, work like teammates, because it was challenging. It was challenging to keep up the communication really, really tight, as it should be. So, yeah, now I have some time to prove that I can do this shit again. 

Speaker 2: I'm sure you will manage. 

Speaker 3: I will have to do it, but I mean it's challenging. Don't think everybody that, yeah, it's so easy, you can go anywhere, whatever. Like no, you think it's going to be all right. And sometimes these things you need to have in consideration, like your work efficiency and stuff. 

Speaker 2: No, and I love that you are like honest with us and bring it up, because this time zone thing can be so challenging when you are like having different teams. So that is something also. Maybe all listeners were thinking about starting the life as a little normal, should consider this. But then, like we met in Columbia and they I know that you started with your hand balance workshops, so this is another thing you do for your own eyes. You maybe you can talk a little bit about it. 

Speaker 3: Yeah, and balancing is like a passion that I have because I'm a very active person. I love doing sport. I know if there's some people here listening that know me for some years, they will think I'm lying, because I'm only a passionate for sport. Recently It's like my life really really really changed. Like two years ago I really clicked into being a very active person in that sense. So it's been some years now that I've been doing yoga. 

Speaker 3: Gym is a big part of my life as well, and one thing that I find a lot of fun with and a lot of personal expression, let's say is hand balancing. I started to do it with yoga. Everything that has to do with handstands and all of these positions that you basically are holding the weight of your body in your hands on the floor crowd position, kundini as a sirsa and as a headstands, headstands, handstands, tripod stands, like all of these positions that you normally see in the yoga classes like wow, that looks impossible. I really like practicing those. So handstand has been a big part of my life for the last two years. I learned to do the handstand during the quarantine the first quarantine for COVID like spring time of 2020. I was locked in at home with my girlfriend back then and we were practicing yoga all the time because she's a crazy yogi And handstand became like an obsession And at some point it was like, all right, let's, before they release us to normal life again, we have to get this done. So it was like I think it was like 90 or 100 days of like practicing every day, every day, every, every, until I got it right. And then on the way I kind of discovered a lot of little tricks that you can apply to actually get to do a handstand, which is such a fucking difficult skill. That made it so much easier. And then I started to teach it to some close friends who asked me how do you do that? All right, i'm gonna teach you. What's my personal approach to this that I didn't see anyone else talking about, because I had been taking courses or classes, d's that whatever, but nobody was teaching the exact same things. That finally unlocked the skill for me. 

Speaker 3: So when I was in Columbia, i already had some experience teaching people one-on-one on how to get a handstand, and then I thought I don't know, i was feeling like I wanted to teach it to more people And I was having the time and I was having the motivation. So I figured out something very interesting and it's that for you to live as a digital nomad, you can create a lifestyle which involves that you can exchange some of your skills or your qualities for the state wherever you are. So I found this very good chain of hotels in Columbia that you know, Selina, that we were both staying in this one. They are in actually all over the world, and I realized that they had this program of exchanges where different people were exchanging qualities they had or giving workshops on different subjects in exchange for the state, And I thought that that's very cool because I'm gonna save a tone to stay And at the same time, i get to stay in a cool which is very place, very digital, nomad, friendly, right, and those places care a lot about the community. They organize all these activities. So I suggested the people that I met in Bogota when I was staying in the Selena in Bogota Hey, what if we do this thing Can would you be interested in me giving a workshop in this? And they love the idea. So it just happened Like I tried it there. It worked very well The first one, of course. 

Speaker 3: I realized through the feedback that there could be improved in different number of ways. But, yeah, this one worked very well. And then they told me, hey, would you like to do it in Barcelona? And I was like, yeah, sure, let's keep moving. So next I went to Palomino in the coast. From Palomino I went to Cartagena. I did it again in Cartagena it was very cool, and then again in Bogota when I was back, and now I'm gonna continue doing it in Thailand. So it's like a new avenue that just opened to start giving this workshop. It's very exciting And it's so cool to see people arrive with that expression in the face as like, oh, i don't know why, this looks impossible, i cannot do it, and all of these excuses, right, like I'm not strong and not flexible, i'm too young, i'm too old, i don't know. 

Speaker 3: Whatever, It doesn't really matter your age, your gender, your, as long as you have a minimum level of fitness. If you get the proper instructions on how to move your body and how to stack your joints in the proper way, what to pay attention, how to engage your muscles and also a progression into losing the fear Cause many people is very afraid of going upside down If you get the proper instruction to progressively go through all these stages. The workshops are like two or three hours And in two or three hours everybody gets upside down, everybody, and some people even hold it without the wall. 

Speaker 2: So yeah, i'm very happy with the result. It's like in congruence for it. It's like super cool what I saw until now, like just in videos, and I love this example also for that. Sometimes our talents, our passions or our hobbies, what we are just doing, can turn out into work. We can do a digital genomic. And because it's not always about gaining money, i feel as a digital genomic, a lot of time it's also maybe earning an accommodation, as we posted in Selina. I mean, i did women's circle, my journaling workshops in Selina and could stay there and could live there. And this is another point. I feel that helps us also to meet new people, right, because sometimes as a digital genomic, where do you meet people? And then the best thing is if you just offer a workshop, workshop you like, because then you meet like-minded people, because the people who like those things they are coming And that for me was also super nice snowball to build my own community wherever I am. 

Speaker 3: It's interesting because in the end, it's like making a puzzle, right? If you think, what do you want to do? Okay, out of my heart, i would love to be given these workshops. And then it comes all the bads But this is not gonna give me money or bad to whom I don't have people who would be interesting. All these bads could be solved by another agency which exists in your context. It's just like putting the pieces together. All right, so maybe I don't need to get paid for this, but I can exchange it for something that is costing me money, which eventually it's the same, right? So, all right, who could offer me a stay? All right, a chain of hotels, now, who has the people that would be interested in this? Well, a chain of hotels who cares about community. And then you just find this person and then it's like exploring different options And it's about thinking out of the box, because many times, the solution is just in front of you and you just don't see it. 

Speaker 3: I had been staying in Salinas for like two months without thinking about it And then, even though it was like, wait, i'm just staying at the place which has the solution to this problem. Why do I not like go ahead and try this thing, and it worked. And sometimes the universe surprises you in so many different ways, because my main goal when I was in Columbia was rather finding places to DJ. That's what I wanted, and I actually had been talking to Selena to DJ in their places And it was not really flowing. It was not working Like the opportunities were not showing up, and it was so curious that they really liked the idea of doing the workshop hands-on workshop And when I started to do this thing, they also asked me all right, what else do you do? Well, i happen to also DJ. All right, then, why don't we combine this somehow? Would you like to stay some days DJing And some of the days you exchange for the? So I eventually ended up DJing because I started to do the hands-on workshop, which is what I went. 

Speaker 3: So you never know how things are going to work out. It's very interesting. You just have to be open to that and then have a lot of communication with people. So if you close yourself in your mind, it's probably nothing going to come out. But if you have the conversations with other people, like For me, the idea of doing this thing in Selena came because I was talking to someone in the kitchen one day in Selena, because she was doing a workshop, and then, oh, what do you do? And she told me about these things, and then the piece of the puzzle came together. For me It's like, wait, i could do the same, but this conversation could have happened with you as well, because now I know that you were doing the same thing. 

Speaker 3: So it's about having conversations with people and the way that you let know the universe what you want, so the universe can start conspiring towards you. It's many times through conversations with random people that you don't think it's gonna lead you anywhere, but it's a way to put it out. So the way you put it out, the moment you put it out, it's out And you don't know how is it going to be received or how is it going to come back, but it it happens. So just put it out like shamelessly, tell people what is your madness. That's one question I love asking people What is your madness? 

Speaker 2: I love it. So what's your madness? 

Speaker 3: My madness. My madness is probably DJing and doing this Hanson's workshop right now. It's that. that's where I find most of the madness. Yeah, anything. that is like bringing people together into exploring something they didn't know that they were capable of. That's also the main trigger for the artistic community that we have here in Tallinn. It was also the same Bringing people together who have a potential and they are not exploring it enough. So let's bring these people together so that together they can encourage each other, together into exploring this thing. It's the same thing for the Hanson workshops, and, as a DJ, i try to also guide the dance floor into something like that. So everything comes together. That's my madness. What's your madness? 

Speaker 2: Yeah, right now it's like all about this heart connection. You know, like inspiring people to connect more to their heart, and I do it like through. I just finished my conscious dance facilitator training, so right now I'm the journey to also become a DJ at some point. It's like something super new for me, but as soon as I'm really listening openly to my heart, what I really want, i feel so fulfilled Like facilitate dance. You know, all this conscious dancing putting the music, like I just learned drumming because I feel drumming is a super nice sound for ecstatic dance. And, yeah, together with my conscious writing. So that's also like why I'm this year building, trying to build community around. 

Speaker 2: And there I have another question I feel people are also like a challenge in the digital nomad world. Is this community building right? Because if we are not at one place all the time, consistently, so how do you do it with your artistic community and all the people you did already the Hanson workshops with? like how do you keep them as part of your community? Or how do you develop and grow? 

Speaker 3: That's challenging because I'm very shy by nature, i'm quite introvert and I need to be in a very particular state of mind and mood, instead of consciousness, to actually tap into my extrovert. And then I'm very extrovert And then I got to connect very easily with anyone and engage people into doing stuff. So I had to figure out my way to trick myself into getting into that space Because otherwise I get locked in my brain and nothing happens and it's frustrating Knowing that you are somewhere full of possibilities And because you are not connecting with people, you are not making the most out of it. That's very frustrating and FOMO kicks in hardcore. It's very annoying. I think the way that I trick myself into that is me being the one who comes up with the idea of doing something And then trying to involve people that I believe in into joining me into my madness. I think this is how it happened with the community Artistic community hitting talent. 

Speaker 3: It's called wait for it, by the way. People who want to follow it wait for it. It's the name. And it only started last winter because sorry, last summer, because I moved here to Tallinn some months before And I was going out a lot and seeing that there was so much people with talent, a lot of live music in the city, a lot of performance, a lot of art Painters, photographers, videomakers, musicians, all of them And that was like in full admiration of them. They are so good, right, and I was thinking first, i want to get closer to them And because I'm shy that's always a problem Like I'll be, like break the barrier of awkwardness. But at the same time, artistic types are also quite introvert many times And so they need the same. They are craving for the same story. 

Speaker 3: And in Barcelona I was more involved into artistic communities And I know that they exist more and I was expecting them to exist here. So I was thinking I want to join some of them, but they were not. I couldn't find any. So I said let's just create one. So I basically started to talk to two, three people into making a party together And the whole concept was that was the madness. Well, i enrolled them because I believed in them. Let's make a party where you, as artists of any kind, are performing in the party, so that people who come to the party they get to see the process of creation. They don't get to see, like when you go to an exhibition, you already see the artwork finished hanging off from the walls. But rather in this party you'd be like, all right, it's a regular party, you go there, you, there's music. Of course you cannot dance, maybe you get some drinks, maybe you socialize or whatever. 

Speaker 3: Also part of the experience is you get to see artists performing doing their thing. So we got this guy, mahendra, for instance. He's a really good painter, so we put him in the middle of the dance floor with a canvas and he would be painting And people could be seeing him paint and how he would start the artwork and how it would be finished. This is also part of why we chose that thing, because in the end, the whole idea of the project is that some things in life are so good that you just cannot get them the final result and enjoy it. You need to see the whole process to actually get the whole thing. So you need to wait for it. You need to wait for the ending, and the waiting for it and the observation while you're waiting for it is what really gives so much value And you get to connect so much better with what is value behind the artist who's doing that. So we put Mahendra to paint in the middle of the dance floor. Then we had a photographer and she made a little photograph room in a corner of the dance floor as well where she was shooting super interesting portraits of people And what else we had that day. We had live music, so we had a live music band playing. So it's always the component of live performances And something that happened and this is always like a very alive thing where this constant iteration is that where Mahendra was painting his thing, people started to join him, so it became like a collective painting. 

Speaker 3: People said can I paint something here in the canvas? So the project has turned now into not only you get to see people performing live, but you as an individual who comes and maybe you are being disconnected from art whatever. This is not so much present in your life. You don't consider yourself an artist, but you get to this event and you become part of the artwork in a way. So we want to put some experiences where you actually participate in the creation of something And actually the whole event is an artwork in itself, right? So you are participating to it, you are part of the artwork And also it has to be like very playful, because it's gonna be like some different activities that you can take part that are like art creation. So you see, that's madness. 

Speaker 3: And how do you bring people together for that? When you tell everybody like I wanna do this crazy thing, and some people will get excited and will join you And some others will just like this guy from, trust it or whatever. Some people will join later on because they need proof, they need to see it. Everybody's different But in the end, keeping the community it's all about seeing the person who is behind. 

Speaker 3: Right, like, every person who comes to our community is someone we really pay attention to as an individual, as a person, person who carries their own story, and we want to know what's your story. That's also something like every time someone new comes, it's like what's your story? What do you do? How did you come to do that? Like, tell us more. There's a sense of curiosity. We want to learn, we want to be supporting each other. We want to know which challenges are you going through, cause maybe we can help you And there's a big sense of collaboration and that creates a very strong bonding. I feel so happy about it, cause there's a big sense of family and bonding. We are helping each other a lot. 

Speaker 2: It sounds amazing. 

Speaker 3: It's very, very meaningful Yeah. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, And I feel like all the listeners like we, as we are all digital normals we should go to Tallinn to join your next event there, Absolutely. 

Speaker 3: You're gonna love it. 

Speaker 2: And then, how do we bring our madness together? Maybe we can. I would love to hear from the listeners. I don't know who would join one of our events. Maybe we combine our DJ madness. 

Speaker 3: Totally, totally. We're gonna have a big party in August. First or second week of August. we're planning to do a very big one where we're gonna get a big space It's like a house And then we're gonna fill it up with all these artistic performances in different rooms and people is able to come and join. Just imagine your regular party. This is not. it's gonna be music and there's gonna be drinks and there's gonna be socializing and everything that you would find in a party with all these extra components. But I think it makes it much more magical and memorable, right, like a story that you can tell someone when you go back home, something that you will remember. That's it, yeah. 

Speaker 2: Sounds really amazing. Okay, before we finish any question, i should have asked you Anything you still want to talk about, or is it all set? 

Speaker 3: I think there's only one thing that I'd like to talk about, which is a realization that I had during this last winter moving around Columbia and Ecuador, and there's a difference between traveling and digital nomading. Let's call it this way. It's what we talked before And I think people should be aware of that. When, like if there's anyone here who is considering to become a digital nomad and trying to find a type of work that allows it to work out of your computer and you, all you need is a computer, internet connection and then you can be anywhere. There's many jobs which allow for that now, and more and more jobs are transforming into that. I think you should really be aware of the difference between traveling and digital nomading. It's not the same. 

Speaker 3: That's something that I learned the hardcore way. This was my first starting to move a lot and then realizing that was not that much sustainable. And then you'd rather have periods where you move a lot, but you have to be aware your productivity is going to go down probably. So I don't know, maybe take holidays these days or just know that you're gonna work less effectively, and but you have to be fine with it, And then combine it with periods where you stay for a minimum of two weeks or one month in a place where you can actually get back to your more normal life, adding some more of the young in your life Order, hierarchy, structure, proteins, all of that Cause that's a very good platform for everything else to come around. Especially if you have a creative type of work or something like this, you need to have this platform of order that sustains the madness to then show up in an effective way. So yeah, be aware of the difference between traveling and working. 

Speaker 2: Just if someone now has a question in mind. but what does he mean by traveling? What does he mean by digital nomading? So, if I understand it was traveling, you really mean this going every day, every two days, to another place, to Skyro, and really be in this touristic mindset And with digital nomading you mean staying two weeks, one month really at a place, settle down and really live your life. 

Speaker 3: What do you prefer? The type of energy that you carry with you. Is it more chaotic or are you looking for? try to find the more structure, even if you are in a different place, cause that requires some effort, like figuring out your way to function in a new place, finding your what is? the routines that you can follow, like the place that you know is gonna give you the good food and, i don't know, the gym that you're gonna be attending and all of these things. They give you a routine, at least for me. They work. 

Speaker 3: Like food and exercise for me are two very basic things. If I have them in order, i can function. If they're all over the place for me, it's very hard to function in every other aspect. So everyone will have their own things. But try to figure them out and then see which energy are you carrying, like exploration, full on. I don't care about anything. All right, i call this traveling, being more grounded and trying to figure out a way to function in a very effective way, even if you're in a new place. I would call this digital nomading. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, and I fully agree to it, because I would have added and now you also said it that for me, traveling is also like you don't care, you know, you just want to meet people, you want to see places. 

Speaker 2: And you're maybe forgetting a little bit about grounding yourself sometimes because traveling, you know, normally you think, okay, i do it two weeks. Two weeks doesn't matter if I eat out every day, if I go out partying every day, i just want to meet people. And digital nomading is then also back being this grounded, being aware of your needs. And for me, for example, the first thing I do when I arrive to new places, checking out, okay, where's the nearest gym? Because for me, body movement is super important, where can I go running, where is the yoga studio, Where can I go to CrossFit, so that every day I like this, etc. And then also, for me, digital nomading is this like also taking really care of your needs and make them more a priority, because I feel, traveling, we adapt to what's happening, we are super excited, we want to meet new people. And then digital nomading is also this yeah, this more grounding, as you said, energy, taking care of yourself, taking responsibility to really sustain this lifestyle. 

Speaker 3: Yeah, like traveling sometimes, often it requires you to take compromises right. It's like the place is the priority. It's almost like the new place is ruling over you, and then you need to find moments also where you are ruling over the place, because if you are ruled over all the time, i mean then you feel thrown into a chaotic tornado that spits you out, and that's not a good experience. It doesn't really feel good. 

Speaker 2: So, yeah, balancing out, I think that was like a super nice ending. So, as I understood, your plans are now that you will stay the summer over in Tallinn And maybe in the winter you keep on traveling again. 

Speaker 3: Yeah, now the plan is to stay here for a while. I'm already here for like a month and a half and I'm gonna stay until the end of August. Then I have to go to Kuala Lumpur for some productions, work productions in Kuala Lumpur, and then there will be also another production in LA, but that's gonna be short for one week. But, yeah, mostly here month and a half. I'll be like out, then back here until the end of the year And hopefully then I can go to Columbia again for January, February, March. That would be beautiful. That's a plan right now. Let's see what happens. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, you never know right. But then hopefully we meet in Colombia again, because I'm also now for the summer back in Europe And I. 

Speaker 3: And we made a very beautiful tour these days. I love it. That was very beautiful, right Like everybody that's there in this Selina. Yeah, v is coming to be here in July. By the way, she's gotta be here for my Valley University, so you're more to join the journey. Let's see. 

Speaker 2: Cool. so thanks a lot, Vic, and if people are interested in contacting you and learning more about joining maybe an event of your artistic community, the workshops, et cetera we will put all the links in the show notes so people can contact you there. 

Speaker 3: Totally yeah, basically, i use Instagram as a social platform to actually show what I do and also like connect with anybody and talk, so I think it's gonna be my Instagram account in the Perfect In the books, and that is what they can read. 

Speaker 2: Amazing. Thank you so much. 

Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Kendra. It's been a pleasure, So fun to have this conversation. Really good luck with this podcast. It's a very interesting subject, so I'm sure it's a good platform for a lot of crazy stories we told I'm excited, Thank you. 

Speaker 2: Bye. 

Speaker 1: And that's it for today. Thank you so much for listening. I appreciate it very, very much. I would appreciate it even more if you could leave a review on Apple Podcasts for me. That way, more people can find this podcast, more people can hear the inspiring stories that we're sharing, and the more people we can impact for the better. So, thank you so much if you are going to leave a review. I really appreciate you and I will see you in the next episode.