Transcript
WEBVTT
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Hey nomads.
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Welcome to Digital Nomad Stories, the podcast.
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My name is Anne Klaassen and, together with my co-host, kendra Hasse, we interview digital nomads.
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Why?
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Because we want to share stories of how they did it.
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We talk about remote work, online business, location independency, freelancing, travel and, of course, the digital nomad lifestyle.
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Do you want to know more about us and access all previous episodes?
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Visit digitalnomadstoriesco.
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All right, let's go into today's episode.
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Hey, hey nomads.
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Welcome to a new episode of Digital Nomad Stories.
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Today I'm here with Talib from Ever Evolving.
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He is in his third year of living a nomadic lifestyle and he runs two businesses a brick and mortar business and a blog.
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So I'm really excited to have you on the show today, taleb, and share a little bit more about your story, so welcome.
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Thank you.
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Thank you for having me.
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Yeah, so to kick us off, can you tell me a little bit more about what life looks like for you?
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Like, what do you do day to day?
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How?
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What?
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Running two businesses?
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What does that mean exactly?
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What does that look like?
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So day to day I've cultivated a routine.
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So generally almost daily I wake up and I have the same routine.
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It gives me a little bit rooting.
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A lot of the times I've kind of made a decision not to speak to anybody before 10 am.
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A lot of the times I've kind of made a decision not to speak to anybody before 10 am and it just helps to kind of integrate and ground and do my own practices.
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First, day to day I always start off with a meditation of some type and journaling, and that's been for many, many years.
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Meditation has been maybe about 20 plus years and journaling 10 plus years.
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I would say it just helps me to get what's inside outside on the paper before I go and start with the rest of my day and with work.
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In terms of, from a work perspective it's kind of mixed.
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It's like the way I see is after 10 am it's like everything goes.
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You know, whatever comes my way in the present moment, you know I don't, I haven't been involved in the day-to-day of my business from the brick and mortar business, but that took many, many years.
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Like it was kind of an intention that I planted years and years ago and then slowly been working to move away more and more from the day-to-day stuff and trust in people right, trust in our team, trust in our managers, and at this point, most of my day, from a brick-and-mortar standpoint, I'm working with my managers too, in particular, and then they have taken a lot off my plate from that management perspective.
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Taken a lot off my plate from that management perspective, and then I get to right now it's I'm diving deep into more of the nitty gritty where I'm like focusing on learning about the SEO, how to upgrade our site, connecting with marketing and sales, and kind of diving back into to that area within the business, but again, again, working with a couple of my teammates actually the whole team to get things done and see where we can evolve the business and improve the business.
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So it's kind of more like it's a dance like right now I'm doing a little bit of hands-on stuff from that standpoint, but a lot of it is also coaching.
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So it's kind of a mix cool, awesome.
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Well, that sounds good.
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I love that.
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You said that you do something for yourself which in your case is meditation, journaling before you go in full business mode and learn new things and work with team members and you know everyone can ask you questions and you know you have to be in work mode, but before that you take the time to set your day up Right.
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I love that.
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I think that's.
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That's really cool and inspiring.
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I try to do that Doesn't always work, but I feel it when I do it yeah, it's a practice, right, it's a.
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It's that's.
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Everything is a practice.
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Like if I say meditate, we say meditation practice.
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If we say journaling, I say journaling practice, right.
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Then it kind of gets rid of that sort of idea of perfection, and then that applies to everything that we do.
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Everything is kind of like a practice, it's an experiment, it's a testing.
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You know, day to day, yeah, exactly Cool.
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What is the brick and mortar business?
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Exactly?
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So the brick and mortar business is a heating and air conditioning business and it's in Toronto, so we specialize in working with condominiums and management and there's a B2B side and a B2C side because we're working with owners and tenants, and so it brings a lot of lessons, for sure.
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But that's what the business is Okay, it brings a lot of lessons for sure, but that's what the business is, yeah, okay.
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And then I think I mean you just mentioned it took years to get the business where it is, now that you don't really run the day to day anymore, what happened in that journey?
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You know, like, when did you hear about being a digital nomad, remote work?
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You know that side of things, and how did you find out about it?
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When did you think like, oh, maybe that's something I want to do, that this is what I want to work towards?
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Can you share a little bit more about, kind of like, what sparked your interest there?
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Yeah, you know, it started, I'd say, around 2014.
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And I say around that time, you know, I was driving a lot.
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You know, when I was doing I was I was driving a lot like I was doing all the stuff.
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I was even doing some repairs, even though I wasn't really supposed to be doing repairs, but there was things that I was doing out of necessity.
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You know, always having that, those bluetooth devices in my ears, I'm talking and I'm working, you know.
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And then, while I was driving, though, it was the time where I could really start to listen to podcasts.
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You know, I actually got into podcasts and I had found this first podcast I found it was something like moneypillowcom, or something, basically was talking about it's really, it's really good podcast, but he was talking about how to make money while you're sleeping.
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That was the idea, right, like how do you structure things where you're generating income, and so that just kind of started planting a seed.
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But there was a book that many of his guests recommended and that was For Our Work Week, by Tim Ferriss.
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And so, when moneypillowcom, he just stopped recording, he just stopped sharing, for whatever reason, I'm not sure.
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But then I was like, oh, it's just like I was searching for something else and then I came across another podcast called a good life project.
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And this is a beauty about podcast.
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As I was listening I was like because sometimes as a business owner you know, entrepreneur you feel so alone, especially if all your friends are more like working in the nine-to-five in the corporate world and structured environment.
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You're kind of in your own little world.
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And so discovering these podcasts I felt wow, like here's my people.
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Even though I'm not there's, not in person, it was giving me a lot of strength to kind of keep moving forward during the tough times.
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But in that I ended up doing a program years ago I don't he doesn't do it anymore but I did this like do the good life project.
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I did do a program with him and that was like a six month business life program and how to balance things out.
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Through that process I started getting involved with these different communities that were all kind of interconnected and I remember one person in particular I met and she worked for somebody I forget his name is maybe Matt Nomadic Matt or something like that.
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So that's when I first kind of really heard the concept.
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I was always going towards that, I mean the seed I planted even way before that, when I was like 25, 26, my first visit to Spain.
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I remember, in my first European trip.
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I remember after that experience I was just like after three, four days I just felt like, oh, I'm only just warming up.
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And so the seed I planted, like 20 plus years ago, to say, you know, I want to live in places longer, but I didn't have a, I didn't have this idea, I didn't hear the term digital nomad.
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That wasn't until maybe, maybe, let's say, even 2015, 2016.
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And then so I think subconscious, you know, over time I was just planting seeds.
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I have a lot of patience, but I was just planting seeds and watering them over time.
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So it's making my way gradually to this place that I got to like a few years back.
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Yeah, that's so funny that you learned about digital nomadism through podcasts, because same same here.
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And yeah, I also learned well, like kind of through podcasts, right.
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I remember when I was studying in the Netherlands, where I'm from, I would just go and walk in the park with a podcast on.
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I just loved travel podcasts and then through travel podcasts I learned about digital nomads and remote work and long-term travel.
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And then now, thinking back, I also had a few times when I was traveling that I thought oh, I could live here, you know that you walk.
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Oh, I could live here, you know that you're a walker on.
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Oh, I could live here and then all of a sudden like wait, I actually can live here.
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That's.
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That's such a wild realization when you're like, wait, other people are doing this and they come on these podcasts, they share their story, so then it must be a possibility.
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Then it's so interesting that you had a similar experience through podcasts and you know meeting a lot of people through nomadic mad and then, yeah, so what steps did you take after learning about digital nomadism to then eventually being able to actually live that life?
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you know, some steps obviously were conscious in the sense of like I was, like you know.
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For example, you know, give you an idea of accounting, right, so the I'll tell you.
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I'll share a couple of.
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The biggest step that I started to take is, for example, we're assigning paychecks, employee checks, right, and you know, there was still there was, you were using check in pen, so I had to be present to obviously get those done, and so I started to look at alternative options and we got to through our bank.
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We were able to set up both for vendors and employees, to set up all digital.
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So I have like a, I have a token that I have with me you, my accountant posts, biweekly posts, the vendor and the payroll payments, and I don't have to be physically here because they send the files.
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I see all the data and it doesn't matter where I am in the world, I just need an internet connection in order to approve these payments.
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And so that was the first step to freedom.
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But then there was things like I did my first Vipassana it's called Vipassana meditation retreat, and that required me of being away for 10 days, no phone.
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I remember waking up actually in the middle of the like two o'clock in the morning and I was like I just need something.
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And I found this place and it was like an hour outside of Toronto and all I read was like I just need something.
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And I found this place and it was like an hour outside of Toronto and all I read was like you need to give your phone away.
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You need to give your phone.
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They put it in a Ziploc bag and they put it away and I was like great sounds, great Sign me up and you know obviously my own narrative and the narrative of you know other people.
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They're like, well, who's going to run your business?
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And I was like that's so odd.
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I mean, well, I guess the people who you know were we hired are going to run the business.
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And so that was a big insight, because 10 days I was completely disconnected from the world in meditation and I came back and the business was still there.
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Meditation and I came back and the business was still there.
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So that just kind of was like wow, you know, it showed me that I can be away and the business will still be there.
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And so that's where I start to slowly create more and more space, because you also learn in that process or I learned in that process is that when I give the business space and I give the team space, they have space to flourish as well yeah, yeah, exactly that's.
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That's such a cool realization because, also, I think you hire great people right, but then when you don't let them do their thing, they probably can do great things because they're great people.
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That's why you hire them right.
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So I think that's so cool that you had that experience.
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And, yeah, I think it's just, it's a little bit confidence or maybe like trust building with the team right.
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Like, okay, I know you guys got this, I'm off for 10 days, see you after and everything will still stand.
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Like I trust that that works.
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That's really cool.
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So what else did you do that then?
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So it's like logistics, apparently right, like you know, being able to pay everyone who needs to be paid remotely without having to physically sign checks.
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So that's one thing.
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And then the other thing, probably the confidence and a trust in a team.
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What was more of the like?
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When did you decide okay, now I'm ready, let's book a flight, let's go?
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Or was there such a moment, or was it also more like a gradual change?
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I think it was gradual, because what I would do is like, let's say, in the year I started, going away and traveling anywhere from like eight to 10 weeks out of the year and I made a commitment.
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I said I.
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The commitment at that time in the beginning, was, you know, okay, I will travel, but I commit to always being available to the business, right.
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So if I'm like, let's say, I'm on a trip with some friends in New York City and I get a call from work, I have this, you know, many memories but I'm like in the middle of the street and I'm having a very challenging conversation with a customer, so that customer doesn't know that I'm in New York, right, and so always being available to the team, to the customers.
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So that I committed to and some will say okay, so it's like kind of like I'm going to places to learn to, kind of this is just the way that I structured myself, my life and how to, how I want to live.
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So it's kind of warming up.
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When it actually clicked was actually was COVID, and I think that I could have probably done it years before, but I'm sure there's, you know, I'm sure there was fears inside of me.
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I was like I couldn't see sort of the path to like how to get to the place.
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But that also where the trust comes in.
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And there was a moment in COVID 2020, I believe is 2020 or early 2021, where something was like I was in a place where I was living for five years it's my favorite place that I've ever lived but just things started happening where I was like, okay, your time here is done, and so I just had this moment as we were slowly coming out of COVID.
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I think I had.
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I was just literally waiting for the vaccine just because I wanted to travel Like it was the only reason just to get my certificate Right For me in particular and so just something just clicked and I was like it's time to go.
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I was speaking to my coach and I was like it's time and I started putting things on Facebook marketplace.
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I started I decided to sell all the stuff that I had.
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I was already living a somewhat minimalist life and so I started putting the things on Facebook marketplace.
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And then I went through this moment.
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I had this one bench that I bought.
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It was the only thing I bought it from, like my neighbor.
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It was like 50 bucks, it was not, it was nothing.
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But there's this thing my coach taught me about.
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It's called the terror barrier, and the moment I sold that bench, I went into like freak out mode for a moment.
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You know, like I was really just kind of like, oh my God, what am I doing?
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And I like there's sadness because you are letting go of a life that you lived, right, so there's a little there's mourning there, there's going to be some grieving, but anyways, once I did it, though, went through my you know little, you know darkness and freak out moment, and then it just started to everything, started to sell every single thing, and then I and my goal was to get everything down into like, basically like a box.
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The only thing I didn't get rid of is my books.
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I put that in my office.
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I put a little bookshelf.
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I wasn't ready and, and there's a lot of value in the books.
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You know there's my some people from my team they go in, they take a book, they read it.
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I sometimes go when I'm back here, so that was the only thing I couldn't really let go of.
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And then, yeah, so I got everything down to a very uh couple of boxes and a filing cabinet in the office and a bookshelf.
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Yeah, that's a big change.
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I absolutely agree that.
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You know, I think, saying goodbye to the life, to an apartment I remember when I my last apartment in the Netherlands, it was such a shitty place, like it was not nice but it was all mine and it really hurt letting go of that.
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But then also, you know, it had to happen to be able to travel and to really have that freedom that I wanted.
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And you know, once I sat on a flight I was like let's go, this is the best decision ever.
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But just before that I was like, oh my God, and to be honest, I sometimes still have that when I travel to places where I've never been, where I don know anyone.
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You know, there's still this little moment usually it's like 48 hours before I leave where I'm like why do I do this to myself?
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Like literally why?
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well, how do you do it?
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Because I've been, yeah, I will say it's like a.
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It's like a, it's like a constant heartbreak, like yeah you get to a place where you just adapt.
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You know, because you make connections, you know the nomadic community, the travel community when you're moving around is incredible.
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You're from the Netherlands.
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I've met so many beautiful people from the Netherlands.
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They love to travel, particularly South America.
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There's a lot that I've run into, but I'm curious because how do you move through that heartbreak Like?
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Are that those emotional roller coasters?
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Yeah, it is an emotional roller coaster and I still go through it.
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Like six years in here, we are right, one of my good friends is leaving Valencia in two days and I have to say goodbye and yeah, I just so, I just allow myself to be sad about that again.
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You know, this is probably like the 100th time that this happens, but it's still okay to be sad and also prioritizing friendships and relationships in general.
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So, seeing the people I want to see again and making efforts, that's how I personally handle this.
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But yeah, it is super tough, for sure, how I personally handle this.
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But yeah, it is super tough for sure.
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How do you handle this?
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Do you have anything to add that really helps for you?
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One is, I just remind myself, you know, every time you meet somebody, and especially you know, there's all types of beautiful connections.
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And then there's, like you know, I'm thinking about a friend that I recently met, when I was in Nepal, and we just connected and we didn't even speak the same language, right, and we just had this beautiful and deep friendship, like off the bat.
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Like she spoke French and you know me, obviously, english, and so it was, but we just connected.
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You know, it's just being present in that moment, being present, and then, when it ends, just being grateful for even having the opportunity to have met that person you know and or to have met a community.
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For me it's like it, it's just.
00:19:30.160 --> 00:19:33.477
I think it's a lot of, it's a lot of gratitude, it's a lot of sending love.
00:19:33.477 --> 00:19:34.077
I think it's.
00:19:34.298 --> 00:19:37.775
It's really difficult for me personally to to stay in touch with everybody.
00:19:37.775 --> 00:19:40.280
I do stay in touch with a few people.
00:19:40.280 --> 00:19:51.693
I would love to have the ability to stay in touch with more, but I've become more and more, both from traveling and my meditation practice, really like here I am, I'm in here in this moment.
00:19:51.693 --> 00:20:04.211
So you know I'm back in Toronto, so to be present here and that sometimes doesn't allow you to do all the things that you want, necessarily, or connect with all the people that you connect with.
00:20:04.211 --> 00:20:07.420
But, like you, like I fell in love with Colombia.
00:20:07.420 --> 00:20:16.913
You know I have dear, dear friends that I mean my heart is still there 100% and that piece of in Colombia is in inside of me and I will.
00:20:17.295 --> 00:20:19.500
I'm already like Okay, when will I go back there?
00:20:19.500 --> 00:20:45.394
So I don't know if I answered your question, but but I think I think, just being really honest with the type of life that you know we select, and also really kind of tuning into the importance of embracing when your heart breaks, because I believe when your heart breaks, in the life that we're living, which is constant, it's like not that it's breaking, yes, but it's expanding.
00:20:45.394 --> 00:20:48.096
So how do we fill that space?
00:20:48.096 --> 00:20:50.460
You know, sometimes I don't know.
00:20:50.460 --> 00:20:55.566
For me, there was a point in my life when I was like heart breaks and then I close down, so I close up.
00:20:55.566 --> 00:21:03.250
So what traveling teaches is like you can't close up, you know, or else that's going to impact all other aspects of your life, of your travels.
00:21:03.250 --> 00:21:07.800
So you just kind of learn to just open up and even fill it with more people.
00:21:14.589 --> 00:21:14.690
You.
00:21:14.690 --> 00:21:15.494
So you just kind of learn to just open up and even fill it with more people.
00:21:15.494 --> 00:21:19.528
You just become more expansive, yeah, yeah, because just the fact that you're, or that feeling that your heart breaks, that just means that you felt that love in the first place.
00:21:19.528 --> 00:21:29.980
So that's really beautiful, right, and I really like what you said, that just being grateful for that and also wanting to be present in the next chapter or next moment.
00:21:29.980 --> 00:21:31.496
I think that makes a lot of sense.
00:21:31.496 --> 00:21:34.380
I think that's definitely really helpful.
00:21:34.380 --> 00:21:35.895
It's a good tip, for sure.
00:21:35.895 --> 00:21:42.602
So now you decided to go back to Toronto after traveling since, I think, 2021.
00:21:42.602 --> 00:21:43.222
Is that right?
00:21:43.222 --> 00:21:51.763
Yeah, so what made you decide to get a home base and stay a little bit more in Canada?
00:21:53.852 --> 00:21:55.898
I was missing being rooted.
00:21:55.898 --> 00:22:08.820
I was missing a little bit of like just having my space, because over the last three years I've probably slept in over 100 different places, right, like in so many kind of different environments.
00:22:08.820 --> 00:22:13.112
Like I was just saying, I was in Valencia for like a month Last year.
00:22:13.112 --> 00:22:19.431
I spent time in like moments you're sleeping on a mattress in the jungle, in the Amazon, somewhere you know Like it's.
00:22:19.431 --> 00:22:21.317
There's so many different places.
00:22:22.633 --> 00:22:41.876
But I think the main reason actually is because I feel doing any spiritual practices and I feel that traveling for me is also, it's a spiritual journey, it's a spiritual practice, you know and so, but with any practice or any spiritual experience whether that's a retreat or whatever it might be is integration is incredibly important.
00:22:41.876 --> 00:22:47.474
So I feel like in this moment, I really wanted to integrate the past few years.
00:22:47.474 --> 00:22:50.694
It's not that I'll stop traveling and I may come back.
00:22:50.694 --> 00:22:58.020
How my next phase of being nomadic arrives, and whether it arrives or maybe it goes back to this long-term traveling, I don't know.
00:22:58.020 --> 00:23:03.037
But the other thing is I really wanted to focus on, as Seth Godin would say, shipping out.
00:23:03.037 --> 00:23:03.478
I think it's.
00:23:03.478 --> 00:23:10.232
Seth Godin says this is shipping out my work, because I write a lot I create, create a lot, but I haven't been putting it out into the world.
00:23:10.232 --> 00:23:23.733
And now I feel ready to like really consistently put that out into the world and not just be creative within my own sort of like bubble within myself and within my, say, small little circle.
00:23:24.715 --> 00:23:35.691
And I think, you know, in order to do that, I felt I needed to be a little bit grounded and the place actually also that I moved into I also felt a sense of like kind of being around family.
00:23:35.691 --> 00:23:47.119
I had just just before the last place I was in India visiting my sister and family there, and I just felt like oh, I just, you know, I need, I want to be around family and my friends.
00:23:47.119 --> 00:23:52.921
So I'm actually in a building same complex as my brother and my nephew and niece.
00:23:52.921 --> 00:24:02.291
You know, just these are the things that I kind of felt like all right, let's do this right now and just, yeah, it's just a knowing.
00:24:02.291 --> 00:24:09.480
You know it's, over time, especially when you travel a lot, you start to sharpen your, your sixth sense, your intuition.
00:24:09.480 --> 00:24:12.784
You know your feelings and where you need to be.
