Living, Writing, and Connecting: Paul McDougal's Digital Nomad Journey

Anne: Hey Nomads, welcome to Digital Nomad Stories, the podcast. My name is Anne Claessen and, together with my co-host, Kendra Hasse, we interview digital nomads. Why? Because we want to share stories of how they did it. We talk about remote work, online business, location and dependency, freelancing, travel and, of course, the digital nomad lifestyle. Do you want to know more about us and access all previous episodes? Visit digitalnomadsstories.co. Alright, let's go into today's episode. Hello Nomads, welcome to a new episode of Digital Nomad Stories. I'm here today with Paul McDougal, and he is a not boring travel writer. He is from the UK and, i think, currently based in Georgia. I'm sure we'll talk about that more. So, paul, welcome to the podcast. 

Speaker 2: Thank you very much. Thanks for having me. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm super excited to hear more about your story and about your Nomad life. So I think you recently moved to Georgia, is that right? 

Speaker 2: So I was living in Georgia for the majority of last year, but I recently moved cities, so I'm now in Kutaisi, which is the biggest city in Georgia, but for the vast majority of last year, for about 10 months, i was living in Tbilisi, which is the capital. So I'm not new to Georgia, but I am new to living in Kutaisi, if that makes sense. 

Speaker 1: Oh cool, very cool. I mean, i've only ever heard of Nomads in Tbilisi, so why did you decide to move? 

Speaker 2: That's a good question, isn't it? Quite a lot of reasons really. So the biggest one is that Georgia is getting a lot busier. But Tbilisi in particular is getting way, way, way busier for a few different reasons, but mainly because of the war in Ukraine. So for a lot of people it's really easy to come to Georgia, so a lot of nationalities can come and stay here for one year with no visa and no bureaucracy. You just turn up to the airport and they go. Yeah, you can stay for a year. 

Speaker 1: Welcome. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly Yeah, come in, stay, do whatever you want. So lots of Russians and Ukrainians and Belarusians are understandably coming here and the vast majority of them are going to Tbilisi. And because of that, the prices have dramatically, dramatically increased. So an apartment that might I mean I'm sort of making these figures up, but an apartment that might have been like $400 or $500 a year and a half ago, it's now like $1,000 or more per month, so the prices have got a bit crazy about. Also, it's much busier. 

Speaker 2: I was in Tbilisi for 10 months and I like to spend most of my weekends like doing stuff outside of city, so going hiking or visiting other towns or villages or whatever. I felt like most of the stuff that was close to Tbilisi. I've done those things. So I wanted like a new base to have like different adventures from. And the third thing, and this is really, really boring it's so boring but I'm 33 now and I'm tired of drinking, i'm tired of nightlife, i'm tired of staying out late And Tbilisi has some of the best nightlife I've ever been to. So, like, even though I wasn't doing a lot of it, the temptation was always there And I thought you know what, if I go to a small city with no nightlife, then the temptation just isn't there anymore, is it? 

Speaker 1: And that coming from a not boring travel rider. 

Speaker 2: Well, yeah, secretly I am boring. If I'm honest with you, i'm a very, very boring man. I just pretend that I'm not. 

Speaker 1: Well, if you have to mention that you're not boring and not boring travel rider, then maybe that's a lot. 

Speaker 2: The lady does protest too much, or whatever it is. 

Speaker 1: Well, that sounds like good reasons to move And interesting to hear that prices have gone up like crazy, because I know that a lot of nomads one of the reasons why they choose Georgia and Tbilisi is also for the great cost of living, so that makes a lot of sense. When that is not really the case anymore, then maybe it's time to leave. Yeah, and exciting that you have found another city to see if you like it there, and maybe less tempting the nightlife, but hopefully like nature hiking just as nice. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, like I couldn't live here forever because it is very small And I visited the city a couple of times before and I knew it was small, but when you actually live in it you realize it's even smaller than I thought it was, so I couldn't live here forever, but I feel like right now it is what I need. It's just, it's quiet and small and a bit cheaper. Well, it's not very cheap, but it is a bit cheaper And it's a really good base for, like, adventures in Western Georgia, which is a part of Georgia I haven't really explored much, so for the next six months, that's what I'll be spending most of my weekends doing. 

Speaker 1: Nice, very exciting. So you're a writer. Can you tell me more about what you write exactly? 

Speaker 2: I can, yeah, so about 80 percent of my work is travel writing and not the 20 percent is. Well, it used to be miscellaneous stuff, but now the other 20 percent is script writing for YouTubers. So a lot of YouTubers don't write their own content or don't write all of their own content, and they often employ writers to do that for them, and I'm just one of the writers who does that sort of stuff. But, yeah, the vast majority of my content is travel writing. 

Speaker 1: OK, so travel writing does that mean that you have your own travel blog, or does that mean that you write for other blogs or publications Like? what does that look like exactly? 

Speaker 2: So I'll rank for a few different websites and a few different blogs. I do have my own travel blog, but I'm very late. I'm not lazy, i'm just busy. I'm so busy So I don't really update my own travel blog at all, to be honest. But yeah, i work for a few different websites and a few different blogs producing travel content about places either that I've lived in or that I know quite well. 

Speaker 1: So I know that travel writing. I know that this sounds really appealing to a lot of people Like you're living the dream, you're traveling and you're writing about your travels and that's how you make a living. How did you get into this? 

Speaker 2: It was sort of an accident, so I can take you on a big long story that I'll tell you if you're interested, and if at any point the story becomes too long, please tell me to shut up. But I ended up being a writer, sort of by accident. So before I was a writer and I had a real job back at home, back in England, my real job was acting. So I've never had a real job, really have I, because I was just an actor And what I used to do was I'd take on a contract for, say, usually around six months, or a few little contracts that would make up a six month period And I would work for six months and then save that money and then travel for six months. That was sort of my yearly schedule more or less, because I've loved traveling for years. 

Speaker 2: But then I sort of got tired of the same routine and always returning home with absolutely no money And it just became a bit annoying thinking you know I'm making money but I'm not saving any money. 

Speaker 2: So I was due to go on a big long trip seven years ago and it was going to be eight months long, and I thought to myself how can I make some money while I'm traveling, so that I don't spend all of my money again like I do every time. 

Speaker 2: And I decided to start advertising myself online as a writer, which I wasn't at the time at all, but I've always been okay at writing because I had the right script as part of my job, etc. Etc. So I hopped on freelancer, the freelancing platform, and I started advertising self as a writer, which I wasn't, but I picked up some really, really badly paid jobs and I was doing those writing jobs as I was traveling And without really putting too much effort in. I made about half of the money that I spent on that trip. And so suddenly I thought like whoa, if I can make this much money with no experience and without putting in much effort, maybe it could become a real life, actual job. So then I gradually started to bring up the writing and to bring down the acting until writing became my full time job, and at first the work I was doing was sort of a bit of everything like anything that anyone would pay me to do, but then over time I managed to refine it until the vast majority of my work was travel writing. 

Speaker 2: Does that answer your question? I've probably answered your question about eight times, because I feel like that was a 10 minute monologue and I apologise. 

Speaker 1: No, you're all good. No, this was really interesting because what I'm hearing you say is that you have done the thing like to work at home and then travel, and then go back home with zero money, work again, travel again, again, go home with zero money, and then at some point it's like oh, it's kind of gets old to be broke. I know from experience. So, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And also interesting to hear that you started on a freelance platform. How do you find clients now? Is that still on a freelance platform, or do you just have a direct relationship with clients? 

Speaker 2: Yeah, the vast majority of my work now just comes from existing clients, so people I've been working with for quite a long time who, for whatever reason, like working with me and want to keep working with me. Very occasionally, i pick up new jobs on jobs websites, so there are some quite good writing specific jobs boards where you can pick up writing jobs. The last job I picked up that I reached out for was actually on Reddit. It's quite good to find writing jobs on Reddit. And then I also spent quite a lot of time on LinkedIn developing like a personal brand and I've said personal branding, quotation marks, because it's an absolutely ridiculous phrase. Everybody knows what it means. So some of my work comes from LinkedIn, but that's people who contact me because they've seen my content on LinkedIn or whatever. So these days, yeah, i spend very, very little time having to look for work. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. So yeah, that sounds familiar to that like the start of running your own business or being a freelancer, being self employed. you will probably spend a lot of time looking for work And then at one point it just kind of switches over where most of the time is actually doing the work. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, and I feel that happens quite quickly, like it just switches quick and you suddenly like ah, i have all this work now, when I don't have to look for more work. And it almost happens, almost without you realizing it. 

Speaker 1: That sounds like a very good experience. 

Speaker 1: That's not the experience I had though, but I'm also not a writer, so I probably picked the wrong profession there, but that's good to hear at least. And, yeah, also great to hear that you have some clients referring you or coming back to you for more work and that you have that long lasting relationship with some clients. That definitely makes life a lot easier, i think. What does life look like exactly day to day? Do you work kind of like a nine to five schedule or does it depend? Do you work like full time, as in 40 hours per week or more or less, or can you share more about that? 

Speaker 2: Yeah, i can. So I think in the city of Digital Nomad I'm one of the most cynical digital. I would call myself realistic, but I think a lot of other digital nomads think I'm quite cynical because I always say and I don't mean to sound like a miserable man, because I'm not a miserable man, but I always say that really, the digital nomad life, if you work full time and if you have hobbies that you like to maintain, then the digital nomad life isn't vastly different to like a normal life that you would have in your hometown or your home country. Because Monday to Friday my routine is I'll wake up, i'll do a tiny bit of work, i'll go to the gym, i'll come back from the gym, i'll have my second breakfast and then I'll work until like 5 or 6pm and then maybe on an evening like I'll go for a run, i'll spend time with my friends or watch a film, or spend time with my girlfriend or whatever, and yeah, so my life's pretty normal. 

Speaker 2: I don't know. I think there's this idea that the digital nomad life is like this amazing, really unique life that's so far removed from nomality. It is amazing and it is unique and it can be so interesting for so many reasons, but I don't think it is that far removed from reality because I think most digital nomads not necessarily initially, but most digital nomads, after being doing this for a few years often settle in rhythm in one place for like between 3 and 12 months at a time and when you're doing that you're not going to be having constant adventures, or apart from maybe on the weekends. But again, i think it's different. Like some people, the main hobby is travelling. So some people don't have hobbies outside of travelling and that's absolutely fine. That's not a criticism, that's just like for some people, travellers the main hobby and that's okay. But I think, yeah, if you're a digital nomad and you work full time and you have some hobbies, then your life is pretty much the same as it would be at home. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, agreed. 

Speaker 2: Does that make sense? Like have I explained that well enough. 

Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely. My follow-up question, though what is the main reason why you are a digital nomad? Because I totally agree with you. Like life is not that different from just being at home and working from home. Like, you basically work from home, just your home changes every now and then, But other than that you're like you're staring at a computer screen for most of the time at least I am, But what is, for you, the main reason why you travel and why you lived as a digital nomad lifestyle? 

Speaker 2: That's a good question, isn't it? I feel like I should have already made an answer to that. And I don't have already made an answer to that. Okay, as you've probably been able to tell from my last answers, in many ways I'm a man who quite likes structure, But I like structure within the confines of flexibility, If that makes sense. So if I was to live a structured life would be based in the same place forever. I would find that quite stifling. But if I live a structured lifestyle and move around every six months or every 12 months or whatever, then I feel like I have some rigidity and some schedule inside a bubble of flexibility. So I like that life can be different. Like I say, my life isn't different every single day, But I like that I can be different. Say, I live here now but in another six months I might live somewhere else And in six months later I might live somewhere else. So I do still get to experience new things in new places and new cultures and new adventures. I'm saying that it's a cliché answer, But yeah, I guess I like to see different. I still like to see different parts of the world, But now, the way that I see different parts of the world and the way that I experience different parts of the world is just vastly different How I used to do it back when I used to like backpack and hitchhike around for months at a time. So, yeah, the lifestyle gives me the opportunity to see and experience different places, but in a slightly different way to how I used to travel. That's why I'm a digital nomad. But then there are other benefits as well. I mean, like there are financial benefits obviously. 

Speaker 2: I think also quite an underrated part of being a digital nomad is the people that you meet, Because and I'm not saying that like back in Newcastle where I'm from, the aren't great people. There are lots of amazing people. Lots of my best friends are still from Newcastle. But when you travel around a lot and moved a lot to different places just by virtue of always dropping yourself in an unknown place, You're always going to meet new people. Right, Like if I was to live in back in England forever, I wouldn't feel the need to make new friends because I wouldn't need new friends because I already have friends. But when you're traveling a lot and moving around a lot, you always need to be making a new friendship circle. So you meet a lot of people, And because you do that, you meet a lot of interested people, And I think that's one of the most underrated parts of the lifestyle And there's something about that that I also find really appealing. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, i think that's awesome to hear. I think a lot of people also see this as a negative side of the digital nomad lifestyle that every time you have to meet new people and it can be a little bit difficult to really build deep connections with people because everyone is always leaving, like either you are leaving or this other person is leaving. So every few weeks, few months, you have to find new friends or a new friend group or whatever it looks like. But you said that for you that's more of a positive thing, right? That it kind of gets you out of the comfort zone of your existing friend group so that you meet these new interesting people. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, i just think you do meet lots of interesting people, lots of interesting, carol, because often the people are quite inspiring, like you meet people with quite inspiring stories. Obviously also, you meet people from all over the planet, don't you? And that can be nice because you know you can go. maybe in 10 years time they might visit you or you might visit them. 

Speaker 1: Yeah. 

Speaker 2: I would say that is one of my favorite things actually. But don't get me wrong It is sad to leave people behind. But I think these days I've sort of come to terms with the fact that friendships can be sort of transient, and that's okay. Not every friendship has to be a person that you see every day for the rest of your life. That's fine. And it did used to make me quite sad and quite depressed that like, oh, i'm making friends with this person and then maybe I'll never see them again. But now I've just come to terms with the fact that that's a little bit sad, but that's okay, because sometimes a little bit of sadness is okay. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's part of it. That's, unfortunately, saying goodbye is also part of it, and if you have spent time together for a while, that's always a win. That's how I try to see it. Yeah, yeah, that's yeah. I think that's a really nice way to look at friendships on the road and friendships and digital nomad lifestyle. Would you say that your digital nomad life seven years ago when you started right, i think you said it seven years ago when you started traveling and like making some money on the road while doing your first writing projects How did life change in the last seven years? Like when you look at your day to day then and then like now, Oh man, like it's like two different people. 

Speaker 2: So these days I see probably written down from this conversation I have quite a set routine, quite a set structure and things that are important to me are, i don't know, like exercise goals and life goals and work stuff, blah, blah, blah. Quite a dull man now Back in the day, like when I first started seven years ago. work and personal goals and fitness goals and all those sorts of things. they absolutely all took a backseat to just adventure. All right, so like back then, even though I was working. 

Speaker 2: I wasn't working full time, but even though I was working, my priority was absolutely just having an adventure, and so my travel style in those days was like just free and easy and I would do whatever, even to the point where, like I wouldn't book accommodation, i wouldn't book buses, i would just like hitchhike everywhere, go on couchsurfing, sleep on random people's living room floors, like anything. My travel style then used to be like whatever town I was in, i'd walk to the nearest road and stick my thumb out and hitch a lift to wherever someone was going, and then I'd get to that place and sometimes I'd stay with the person who gave me a ride. Sometimes I'd find that like I don't know, like a random hostel stay in. Some times I'd couch surf with someone from the couchsurfing work sites and I would try to squeeze work into the little holes that I had. But now I feel like my life is mainly work and exercise and I sort of squeeze adventures into the holes now, if that makes sense. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and is that because you've had so many adventures that it was kind of almost getting boring, would you say that? But like it was not as exciting anymore because you've already done so many of these things. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, and I know that is a horrendous thing to say, because some people who might be listening they say you haven't traveled as much as I have might be like I don't know, it sounds so privileged or so widely. You're like how can you possibly say that? But I don't know, everything gets old eventually, doesn't it? And that's not to say that I don't feel value those adventures and don't still occasionally do those adventures, because I do. You know, i still hitchhike here on my weekends in Georgia. But yeah, that life is sort of perpetual travel. Just got a bit stale and a bit boring and a bit empty And I just needed something else. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, that totally makes sense. So you mentioned that routines are quite important for you, especially so that you can read your life goals fitness goals, career goals. How do you do that, like how do you make sure that you can have a routine and that you can stick to it while also traveling and doing maybe less adventures, but still some adventures, and also moving, moving houses, definitely more regularly than quote unquote normal people, yeah. 

Speaker 2: So this is like the biggest thing is just the vast majority of the time now I stay in a place for at least six months, so I think that's the most important thing. I think a lot of people who aren't yet digital nomads, a lot of people who've never been digital nomads or whatever I think often people don't realize that, like the admin of doing everyday things and normal things can take quite a long time. So like finding an apartment, moving to that apartment, buying some spoons, finding your closest gym, like all those little things that people who live a regular life, those things that they don't have to do it every so often, that digital nomads do have to do every so often, they actually take quite a long time. Like even working out the public transport network or I don't know, moving into a new apartment and realizing that your boiler's broken and having find someone to fix your boiler in a foreign country where you don't speak the language, all these little tiny tasks that you have to do every six months become quite big and they take up quite a lot of your time. And if you're moving every month, like suddenly about 50% of your time is swallowed up by just these small tasks that you didn't realize you had to do. So. I think if you move less frequently, that definitely helps you to have a schedule. 

Speaker 2: I think also you just have to impose a schedule on yourself. Like I'm the type and not everyone's the type of person, but I'm the type of person where if I don't impose a schedule on myself, i won't do anything. Like if I don't say okay, tomorrow I'm going to go to the gym at eight and then I'm going to start work at 11 and then I'm going to see my friend at seven. Like, if I don't impose that schedule for tomorrow, i'm going to end up doing nothing tomorrow because I'll just spend my days sort of thinking like no, i don't have a plan. So that works for me. To like impose the schedule upon myself. 

Speaker 2: I would say another little rule that I always say to people and I think this does work for everyone is, when you move to a new place, give yourself like two or three days off work where you just find all the things that are important to you. 

Speaker 2: So like, obviously, different people have different things that are important to them, but some things that might be important to a person when they arrive in a new city might be finding a nice new cafe they can work from, or finding a coatwork in space, or finding the yoga studio, or finding a gym, or finding a nice place to run, or, well, obviously, finding an apartment that's a big one as well, right, like, i don't find them in years and years. 

Speaker 2: Public toilet in the city, whatever, like, whatever the things are that are important to you, that you need in your day to day life. When you first arrive in the city, take two or three days off work and find all of those things, and that'll help you to acclimatize quickly and feel at home quickly, and then it will save some time for future you, because future you, instead of having to worry about those things, it'll just be able to do your daily stuff go to work, go to the gym, go on a run, see your friends, whatever, you know, if you get those life administration tasks out of the way quickly when you first arrive, it will actually save a lot of time, even though it might not seem like it would. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, i 100% agree. I definitely had to learn this. That especially I used to think, okay, i will arrive in a new place, i'll just I don't know, take an hour to get settled into my new air bnb and then I'll just work like that. Just never happens. 

Speaker 2: It just doesn't happen. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, it just doesn't happen because the wi-fi doesn't work or I don't know, like you're tired, i don't know. There's always a reason why. That just is not realistic. So now my plan is also always like definitely no work on a travel day, just nothing. The day after also no, because I want to get all of these things out of the way, like you mentioned. And then you, if I do find myself with time and had space to do work on these days, that's a win. Like that's fine, it's still possible, but I don't have to, and I think that's just so important, i think. Brilliant tip for any digital nomad. 

Speaker 1: Like give yourself the space to land somewhere. 

Speaker 2: That's the thing I think, like you have to give yourself the space. Also, i think about scheduling. If I'm talking too much about scheduling here, feel free to tell me and I'll stop talking about it. But I think as important as designating your work time is designating your not work time. Like everyone needs time off, work right, and I think when you're a digital nomad and you work for yourself, sometimes you're quite hot on yourself because you feel like you could always be working. But one of my rules is I never work on Saturdays and Sundays. I just don't do it Like no questions asked. Even if a client is like, can you do this thing on Saturday? Like no, i don't work on those days. And I think if you're strict about the time where you don't work, you're given yourself freedom and time to have adventures and have fun, so you're not constantly just hunched over your laptop. 

Speaker 1: Mm? hmm, yeah, absolutely. Is it also something that you did when you started working with clients? Because I agree with you Like it's so important to have boundaries and to have time off work. But when I started working with clients, i was like you can call me in the middle of the night, i don't mind, i'll pick up the phone. You know, which is so unhealthy, but that's just what I did. How was it for you? 

Speaker 2: Maybe it's different for me because I like, being a writer, i don't have much face to face time with people, so my work isn't like you must do this thing at this time, like I don't have appointments. Do you know what I mean? Like, oh, i need to speak to you at this time, but I do, of course, have. Can you have this thing completed by this time? And if someone's asking for something? sorry, i feel like I have like 600 different answers to this question. But yeah, because I don't have much face to face time with people, because I just have deadlines rather than appointments, i feel like it's maybe easier for me as a writer to be able to manage time in that way. 

Speaker 2: But to like go back to the original question, what was it like when I first started with a first order? I had no schedule, so it just didn't matter. Like every day was a Saturday to me. You know what I mean? It was like adventure was number one and work came after that. And I think because of that, because I wasn't so desperate to work in those days, if someone gave me some work that I couldn't do in a certain amount of time, i would just be like well, sorry, can't do it. I'm gonna try to get to a mountain today. 

Speaker 1: Exactly, And I think also as a travel writer. I mean, it is your job to travel. 

Speaker 2: That's a great excuse. I need to write that one down, don't I? 

Speaker 1: Yeah, sorry I can, because I'm doing the travel bit of the travel writing. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, This is actually my job, don't you know? Yeah? 

Speaker 1: Yeah, how does that work actually? Do you also go on press trips where you get paid to go somewhere, or is it just more you just do your travel things and then you write about them? 

Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely the second one. I've never in my life been on a press trip. I've never in my life written for print. By the way, I just write for websites. I'm not the big name you might have thought I was. 

Speaker 2: What tends to happen in the usually, like, as much as possible I like to write about places that I know well. So now and again what might happen is a client might come to me and say can you write about this place? And I'll be like, but I haven't been at that place. And what happens in those cases? if they say we have all the information you need, all the resources you need, we know this place well, we just need someone to make it like sound the same way, because you have a way with words and you're right And like, as long as the client is comfortable with that, then I will do those jobs. But the vast majority of the time I like to write about places I know really well And in those cases it's just a case of a client. Sometimes the client will come to me with an idea for a piece about a place they know that I know well. Or sometimes I'll suggest a piece to a client about a place that I know well. Mm, hmm, that makes sense. 

Speaker 1: That makes sense? Yep, absolutely. Do you have any tips for people who are now like I also want to be a travel writer Like, where do they start? I know how you started, but, like in hindsight, is there, is there like an even better way to go about it? 

Speaker 2: I guess it depends where you're at. You can be coming from two different angles, right? You might be a writer who wants to break into travel writing, or you might be a traveler who wants to break into writing. I would say, if you're a traveler who wants to break in a writing, don't be afraid of pitching people And pitching is a bit annoying because you can send hundreds of emails to people and get zero response and get no work and nobody out of it and understand that. But if you're a traveler who is passionate about writing, then do a little bit of right for yourself. Send it to people, send pictures to people about stuff you might want to write about. Even 10 queries to people like Hey, I'm in Albania and I've been in Albania for three months. Are you looking for any content in Albania? Because often I feel like an informed voice is more important than the person who can just write. 

Speaker 2: But if you are a writer, if you're a pre-established writer and you've already done that as a job, but you're trying to break into travel, what would my advice be? It would be don't write about places that you don't know. I guess, Like, just do authentic writing on places that you know well, a little place that you're currently in and again pitch that to people. But I think I would say about travel writing is don't make it boring, Like I think, and this is why I call myself an up-born travel writer, Because I think often people use the same words over and over again to describe the same places And it's like you'll see a sentence and it'll have I don't know, Kyrgyzstan is blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But if you took out the word Kyrgyzstan and replaced it with the words like Georgia, it could equally apply. Do you know what I mean? 

Speaker 2: So, like I feel, like often, there's not much specificity. That's a word Specificity. I'm a writer and I'm asking you what a word is. This is shocking for you isn't it? 

Speaker 1: No, not in English, like English is not my first language. 

Speaker 2: So you tell me. 

Speaker 2: This is a barrage, isn't it? No, specificity definitely is a word. I just thought I'd respond out of it. It's definitely a word. I promise It is not much specificity in travel writing, which I think is, like, sometimes a problem. Another problem is that I think sometimes people take travel writing too seriously, right, like if I was, for example, a medical writer and I was writing it out like a child with a heart problem, of course my writing would be serious, because that's a serious topic and it needs to be taken seriously. But if I'm just writing about, like I said, oh, like sitting in a canoe on a lake, that doesn't need to be serious, does it? Because it's fun? Yeah, and I think I did have a third point that I wanted to make, and I can't remember what that third point was. Now Maybe I'll remember as we're chatting, but I was going to say something else about travel writing but, i, can't remember what that was going to be. 

Speaker 2: Should I apologize, yeah? 

Speaker 1: I think that's honestly the best tip for Any job that you like. You can make everything boring, like even something super exciting as travel, writing or whatever it is. You can make it boring for yourself, but you can also make it super fun. So, yeah, i think like the writing, but also to work itself. I think you can make it fun And for some people that looks like maybe sitting in a cafe and working with a really nice coffee next to you like. For me that is fun. 

Speaker 2: Oh, and I love it. I absolutely love going to cafes and love working in cafes One of my favorite things. 

Speaker 1: Such a pretentious man online, But that's great when you're a writer also. 

Speaker 2: That's what my third thing was going to be. I just remembered don't be a fr. I think if you're trying to break into travel writing, this would be a top tip actually for anyone who's looking to break into travel writing. Not every shins amazing. You don't have to say every shins amazing, like so many travel writers are. like I went to this place and it was the best place in the world, and then I went to this place and it was the next best place in the world. Like some things that like, for example, i hate museums, right. Like there are maybe 10% of museums that I enjoy. if they're a bit weird or really in Iraq, it's because I have the brain of a child, But I hate the vast majority of museums and that's fine. Like I don't. as a travel writer, i don't have to enjoy or have to like or have to promote every single travel experience ever. So I think in travel writing, authenticity is quite important. So don't be afraid to say you don't like things, because if you like everything, then your praise becomes irrelevant, doesn't it? 

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, i think that's a great tip, absolutely. Yeah, i think this is super, this is awesome. This is awesome that these tips because it's also it's a great first step into writing, like when you're traveling now and you're like, oh, writing that sounds cool, then write pieces for yourself, pitch them like, show them to people, pitch. People know that not every pitch will get a yes or no or any response at all, so you will have to pitch like a few times, more than a few times probably, to get a reply. Make it fun, make the writing fun, not too serious, and not everything is amazing. Yeah, i think these are just really good tips. Yeah, thank you so much for sharing these. I mean, you've been a writer for seven years, so and it's working well for you because you are now in Georgia. What is next for you, paul? 

Speaker 2: Oh, that's a good question, isn't it? I'm going to be here until October, and then I really, really don't know after that And what show. 

Speaker 1: Are we going to go? No plan. 

Speaker 2: No plan. I'm thinking about maybe going to the south of Turkey, because that's meant to be nice, but maybe it'll be a bit too cold by then. A standard answer is to go to Thailand over the winter, isn't it And I know that's a cliche standard answer, but it's something I might be doing anyway. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, i mean, thailand is nice. 

Speaker 2: It's lovely, isn't it? Like it's a cliche for a reason Yeah. So yeah, in other two places I could see myself probably be in October. But honestly, i read on both. 

Speaker 1: Are there any places or parts of the world that you haven't explored as much and that you're on your bucket list? 

Speaker 2: Loads. To be honest, i haven't been to any part of South America, and that's a place I'll probably go to at some point in the future. My dad recently retired and he wants to go to South America, so I might go with him at some point in the future. Cool, i'd love to go to India, mainly for the food, because, as an Englishman, of course I have to love Indian foods. I haven't been to any of Africa. I've probably been to, like I don't know, somewhere between 55 and 60 countries, which is a lot and sounds like a lot, but there are also, like so many pockets of places where. 

Speaker 2: I haven't even touched, you know. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, okay. So lots of exploring, still to do Lots of nomading around the world, exactly. Yeah Well, thank you so much for sharing your story with us today, paul. It was really cool to hear how you got into travel, writing what life looks like for you in Georgia and, yeah, some of the tips that you could share with us as well. Thank you for being here today. 

Speaker 2: Well, thank you for having me on. Before I go, can I just quickly mention a website I've worked with, who I'm doing this in affiliation with? Is that okay? 

Speaker 1: Yeah, sure. 

Speaker 2: Okay, so that's travelnesscom. Travelnescom, that's all one word, and we just go by the monogat travel guides you can trust, and we only write about places that either we've lived in or that we visited for at least one month. So that's travelnes, all on words, travelnescom. Check them out for my writing and other people's writing. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll make sure to add the link in the show notes. Are there any other places where people can also find you? follow? you read your writing. 

Speaker 2: Lots of places, really, but the best place if you want to follow my writing is the website I've just given you. The best place you're going to follow me personally is my LinkedIn. So that's my name, paul McDougal, and I'm the travel writer that you'll find on LinkedIn by that name. 

Speaker 1: Sounds good, awesome. So go to the show notes if you want to read what Paul has written, and follow him there. And yeah, don't forget to come back for next week's episode. Thank you for listening And that's it for today. Thank you so much for listening. I appreciate it very, very much. I would appreciate it even more if you could leave a review on Apple podcasts for me. That way, more people can find this podcast, more people can hear the inspiring stories that we're sharing, and the more people we can impact for the better. So, thank you so much if you are going to leave a review. I really appreciate you And I will see you in the next episode.