Trading Stability for Adventure: Mike Moll's Transformation

Hey Nomads, welcome to Digital Nomad Stories, the podcast. My name is Anne Claessen and, together with my co-host, Kendra Hasse, we interview digital nomads. Why? Because we want to share stories of how they did it. We talk about remote work, online business, location and dependency, freelancing, travel and, of course, the digital nomad lifestyle. Do you want to know more about us and access all previous episodes? Visit digitalnomadstories. co. Alright, let's go into today's episode. Hey, hey, nomads, welcome to a new episode of Digital Nomad Stories. Today I'm joined by Mike Moll. he was already on the podcast almost one year ago and, as sometimes happens, especially in Nomad Live, a lot has changed. So I asked Mike back on the podcast to share his the changes in his lifestyle, in his business and probably also new insights that he got in the last year. So, mike, i'm really excited to have you back on the show.

Yeah, thanks so much for having me. I know we've talked intermittently about our journeys and our businesses and stuff, so it's kind of fun to put it into podcast format.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. We can share with people now. So last year when you came on the podcast, you were a marketing agency owner and an agency coach, right? So that's what you did then. I think when we recorded, you were in Mexico. What does life look like now? Can you tell us what changed?

For sure. So full circle, i'm back in Mexico. But last year I left, having an apartment and having a fixed location, and just kind of took off into exploration mode. So I was in 10 countries last year, including North American countries, european and African. So I was three continents, 10 countries. I had this vision for myself, this like oh yeah, i'm the guy that like only has the carry on and I don't need a home base and I don't, i want to just be free and be out there. What I realized was having a home base for me was really important for my like comfort and like mental health and stability. And I didn't know that until about two months ago. I got an apartment back here in Mexico and I just half of my like stress and half of my anxiety, just like floated away And I've only been in the apartment. I've been in the apartment less than I've been like I've had it for two months, i've only been there for three weeks because I've been out and about doing stuff, but just that knowledge for me made a huge difference And I thought I could be the type of person who was fully remote all the time And I realized I really need a hybrid version to feel happy.

Very interesting. Same here, definitely same here And I feel like so many people I have on the podcast went through kind of a similar thing where when they started nomadding, they were traveling a lot and then slowed down, slowed down more and more and more and then eventually got a home base and did more of like the part-time nomad thing if you will call it that, because I wouldn't even say part-time nomadding. I think being a digital nomad is more of the possibility to be able to leave and to be location independent, as it is just full-time traveling. But yeah, that's pretty interesting. I also know that a lot has changed in your work life, in your business. Can you share more about that?

Yeah. So I have this feeling and this knowledge that this is going to happen. I felt it creeping up on me for the last few years, but I won't say I ignored it. I was afraid to face it. And while I was in Africa, just meeting people that lived in tribes and meeting people that lived in different circumstances and just seeing their perspective and how they thought about the world, I realized that And I've always had this feeling that life is too short to do something you don't want to be doing. And I had this weird comfort because my agency has been open for the past 10 years. I was making a healthy six-figure income. I was only working 60 hours a month. I had this thing that I thought was what I wanted and what a lot of people would be really excited to have. And it turns out that it just wasn't how I wanted to be spending my time. So that slapped me in the face pretty hard And in December I shut down my agency. I probably could have spent eight more months getting it ready to maybe sell, but I just had this feeling like you need to do something new, You need to let it go. So that was a massive change, essentially getting rid of let's call it 85% of my income in one quick minute And I held on to a few things and whatever, But all of that security and all of that stability that I had built over the past decade, I just had to release it, which was a very weird and scary experience for sure. Yeah, Yeah.

So what exactly was it that made you decide, okay, this is it. I don't want to run this agency anymore. Because, like I already said, before we hit record, i listened to that episode that we recorded last year just before hopping on this interview, so that I really know what we talked about back then. And one of the things that you said in that interview what really stood out to me was that you said that doing Facebook ads for hearing companies was not necessarily your passion, but it pays the bills. You know, i heard you say that and that's kind of like that was something that stood out to me, because a lot of people on this podcast, but also in general, they talk a lot about having, like doing what you love And, you know, having a lot of fun at work, and I feel like, especially now, like I'm a millennial, So you know we want to have fun at work. I'm pretty sure that's also a generational thing, but for you that was, at least back then, the opposite. Would you say that that changed? Is that the main reason that you wanted to stop the agency?

Yeah, i would say so. I would say my passion wasn't there. So since I started coaching a few years ago, i get an incredible amount of fulfillment from like diving in headfirst with someone and helping them craft what they're trying to build. And where I got stuck mentally was who am I to be teaching someone how to do it when I can't do it myself? Which I do appreciate because I know there's a lot of coaches and consultants out there that are terrible. They've never done the thing that they're teaching people how to do. But I couldn't let go of this idea that, like, okay, having a decade of experience, having employees, having a super profitable company, i was like no, no, it needs to be more for you to keep this qualification to teach other people, which really wasn't the right outlook. Like I have done it, i have had success with it. Like there's not more I need to do to be able to give someone who's four or five years behind where I am that knowledge. And so I really just kind of gave myself permission to know that I'm the expert, know that I've done enough in the space to be able to help people do it, and what I came out with was I'm going to start offering hosting retreats. So my first one will be in November in Mexico, and it's going to be specifically helping agency owners, kind of help them get into the position that I put myself in, which was, you know, not a crazy work schedule with super predictable revenue, just working on the parts of the business that you find fun or exciting and delegating all the stuff that you suck at. And you can see, as I'm saying this, like why it was so hard for me to let go of my agency. It's like that's what I had. You know, i had 15 to 20 years, i had 15 to 20 hour work weeks, i had people to do all the stuff that I wasn't good at. I was making good money. So it was weird for me to like let go of the agency. But I think my what fuels me and what makes me feel alive and excited is helping people create the freedom that I created for myself developing the agency, and I just want to dedicate my time now to focusing on that.

Yeah, I mean that is so exciting that you have made this move and this step into going fully into your coaching business, because that is your passion, That is what you enjoy so much. So I think that makes a lot of sense and it is scary. I think a lot of people listening to this podcast they might be in a similar position where they are currently doing something that they don't love, Whether that's a corporate job, a non-remote job, or maybe they're also they started a business that they don't like. They're not super in love with their business. What advice can you give these people, like from your own experience going through this? Like, is there any advice that you can give other people who are going through this right now?

Yeah, so it's going to sound so cliche, but this is like come up over and over again. I write about three to five pages a day in a journal and I've started taking it like really seriously starting in September of last year. So I'm like more than 100 pages every month, and there's a theme that keeps coming up over and over again which is like what is the purpose of waiting if that waiting is not holding you from going into ruin? And so what I mean by that is like if leaving everything that you're doing right now to go after the passion like you can't afford to do it and it's impossible to do, okay, then logically you need to stay the course, but I think at the moment where it doesn't feel like crippling, you need to just go and do it. You know, i had this couple of experiences in the last year, like my sister, who's 34, getting really sick. She's suffering from this ongoing problem that the doctors can't figure out and it's like crippling her life, you know, and my father passed away last February at 61. He had a very sad life in a lot of ways. He never went after anything that he wanted, he stayed in a job that he hated for 30 years and kind of just Had a hard time finding the best in things. He just never took initiative and action and took responsibility for his own life. And I saw that life and I thought, geez, like if that's not motivation about how not to live, i don't. I don't know what is, you know. And so I think, those two things, and now at you know, at 37 or whatever age you are, you know, oh, i'll do it in five years and ten years, you don't know what's gonna happen. And so, even though it might feel like, okay, i might be, like, you know, right on the line of leaving this thing, to do this Other thing might be financially crippling, you know, then then that's maybe the only consideration. But if it's just because it's scary, then You know, if you don't make the jump for yourself, you don't decide for yourself, nobody's gonna do it. So Yeah you just got to do it.

Yeah, you also kind of have to make it urgent, because it's kind of the easy solution to just keep going Right and then, looking back, you're probably really happy that you made that move and took action. Did you also prepare for Like stopping the agency? Did you, i don't know, like make sure that you have an emergency fund in place so that you can kind of like get over a few months of Like just living life and paying rents, especially when you have an apartment and you're not full-time nomadding or like I don't know any other things that you did to prepare?

Yeah, so I. It's funny There was a bit of a gap between, like this January, when I shut it down, and last month is when I fully committed to the retreat, and so I didn't for that in-between time I just committed time to like Learning about what I might want to do, experimenting. I was playing with different AI tools, different CRMs, different just things, saying like, oh, could I make a Company out of one of these things? so there was actually this gap and so last month It might have been April 9th, it actually might have been a month ago. Today I was with my friend Curran, because he knew that I've been thinking about the retreats for a while, and we just we went to his place, we were playing pool, we were talking, we were just floating ideas around and he said you're the type of person that always seems to take action, except on this. This seems to be the only thing that I haven't seen you just decide and move forward with. And It hit me in that moment. It was like it's because It's the one thing I'm afraid that it won't work, because I really want it to work. And In that moment I said, well, what do you think I should do? and he said that's a stupid question. It shouldn't anything to do with what I think you should do. But he's also someone who's hosted retreats. He's been hosting very successful retreats for the past few years And I said I need a push, i need you know the coaching business. I know how to get that going. I can stabilize my income with that. But this retreat thing, it scares me because it's like what do you ask on the intake form? What do you do with this, the villa, how do you make it an amazing experience when people show up? How do you condense all of this content down into three days? Like it's so hard. And he said you're asking all the wrong questions. You need to start with, like who needs this and what can you help them with, and having conversations, and that's it. That's the only first step. And so on that day I said I'm gonna hire you to coach me to facilitate this retreat. And so I cut him a check for 10k. I Also had a villa in mind and I also put a $2,000 deposit down on the villa. And so for me it was like Committing to something beyond just myself To make it real. And so it was like, even if I just put the deposit down on the villa and spent that 2,500 bucks like that made it feel real and that got me moving, versus me just saying to myself, yeah, you know, you know, here's the, let's make a checklist and everything that needs to be done And you'll do it next, like I don't have a hard time with that. And for me is like, get that responsibility out in public and once that happens, you don't want to look like an idiot and so I get to work and so that's kind of how I did it. But yeah, to answer your question, i kind of went in a weird direction with that. But I did have, i did keep a couple of backup Projects that were like very, very low impact with a little bit of revenue. So I did maintain a few things that kind of kept the bills paid. Well, i was detaching from the rest of it.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, that definitely makes sense and interesting your strategy there. I think it's just about Finding a way that you will have skin in the game and can be putting a deposit down, hiring a coach, i don't know like, do what you have to do, but it sounds like you really commit it through Hiring the coach and putting the deposit down on the villa.

You know the way I think about this. For other people, this is actually very relevant. This happened late last night and it triggered a huge conversation in a digital nomad Facebook group. Someone had reached out to the group saying hey, i'm trying to start this thing, i'm trying to start being a nomad trying to make money online. Their aspiration of like what they needed to make, to like get it started, was very modest, like two to 500 bucks. So I don't really understand how that was enough money. But and they said, hey, like I desperately need a mentor, and that, that, that, that And so a couple of people kind of were rude or like, kind of pushed it off And I said hey, i will mentor you. I will give you an hour of my time, which I can promise you is going to make a huge, huge difference in your search for this Cause. I'm very good at helping people with this type of thing. But here's what I want you to do first. I want you to, i want you to write down everything you're good at. Naturally, you have a natural intensity towards your natural skill sets And I want you to align those top two or three skills to a service that you could offer online, whether that's supporting inside a business or whatever it is. Find something, that skills that you have that are good, and then align them with a type of job or a type of service or a type of work that you could offer somebody. That's step one. My second criteria is I need you to reach out to 250 different businesses offering that service, and if every single one of them says no and you still want an hour of my time, then I'll give it to you. And I think the point there is like we often have this thing that we want to do or this idea, and then we say, oh, but then I'm not that qualified or I don't have experience or that. So we start killing the dream before we even make the dream. And the reason I said 250 is because you reach out to 50 people the same way and every single person ignores you. You're going to take a step back and say, okay, i got to think about something different, i have to use a different approach. And then you go from 50 to 100 and a couple of people say, hey, i don't need this, i don't want this. Oh, okay, well, maybe the way I'm offering it or the way I'm presenting it is not the way that they want it, and so it's kind of every 50,. You have this shift in strategy because you have actual feedback, and so that's why I like the number 250, because if you've asked 250 people to buy your service, to buy your product, to whatever, and everybody said no, i think then you're ready for help, because then you've actually got some of your own feedback and you know what hasn't worked. If you don't know anything and you're not just taking actions now to start the process, how are you supposed to get advice that's going to be meaningful to you?

I don't think you can. Yeah, that makes so much sense. And what I'm also hearing you say, that list what you're good at and what skills you have. That also makes me think, okay, it can be easy Making money and being a digital nomad it can be easy. You don't have to choose the toughest way to do this and to make this work and work and working online and making money on the internet. You don't have to hate it. And I had to learn this because I always thought, or always kind of like imagined, okay, well, i work and then that gets me money, and then, like, when I'm off work, then I have fun, but you can just do what you're good at and that will feel easy and you can still get paid for that. And then, reaching out to people, talking to people Yeah, i think that makes so much sense to get started and to learn just any feedback. If everyone says no, great, awesome feedback, then you can move forward with that.

Yeah, and I'll give you two perfect examples. Like my publicist slash personal assistant used to be my house cleaner, used to come every week and Do a deep clean of my house and when I lived in Sayulita and then she developed these oh, i'm actually very good with like detail, being detail oriented, and like Giving, following a system and like making sure I'm methodical about stuff, and I I saw that in her and I was like, hey, can you? it was started off with some research and now she's a full-time employee, right, and so there's a perfect example of like that transition. I have another friend who you know Remembers back when she was in university and she used to love using Photoshop. She hasn't used it in a decade. She's worked in a factory on a manufacturing line at GM in the, you know, putting together cars, and she's like you know, i don't hurt my back, i'm on leave, like I want to find something to do, and I said, okay, great, what's something you're good at? Oh, i loved Photoshop and creating it, okay, great. So I said, great, go, take this, you to me. Course. It was a $12 online course, you know, get your knowledge up about. You know The current version of Photoshop, and now she's a graphic designer. For me, like, all it took was take this course, go find 10 pieces of art. I want you to replicate them from scratch. These are ads I've used in the past. I want you to go make them and be great. Now she's understanding composition of ads and how we would use them for social media, advertising and stuff like that. Now, all of a sudden, she's a graphic designer, commanding 25 bucks an hour, you know, and so that's just a start for her, but It's much better than what doing the thing that she didn't want to do and just it took. She has that creative that I for design, and so it's like great. How do you lean into that? And there's so many Inexpensive or free resources, whether it's YouTube or course, on Udemy. There's so much you can get fully educated on a topic for a hundred dollars.

Yeah, definitely just a free content that is out, there is already. There's no lack of content. Maybe maybe there's like too much content and it will take you some time to get through it. But yeah, no, it's absolutely possible. And then taking that action that you mentioned by also reaching out to businesses and Getting those conversations started Yeah, awesome. I also wanted to ask you going from Running your agency in just a few hours per week, like having that really nice income, like just like that was all, just I don't know, like working in the background and you were just living life to now building a new company, because retreats is completely new for you, right? How are you dealing with that? Just like, how do you mentally deal with such a big change?

Yeah, that's a great question. So I always think about what's the alternative, you know, and the alternative is I go back to running an agency, i go back to, you know, working, for I don't think I could ever work for a company. I've been offered a few jobs but I don't think it's possible for me and and I'm working like a crazy amount and I'm going into like These strategies and these like marketing ideas that, like, i never really Thought about before. So it's been Interesting where, like I was so used to every idea I had Working for a campaign because I'd seen you do the same type of ads for the same type of companies and so, inherently, there's this Like almost automatic success with every idea that you have. And now here I'm spending, you know, 15, 20 hours on a concept and it crashes and burns and I'm like, oh Man, that sucks. But for me it's like what's the alternative? right? Like I, if I want to make this happen, i need to learn it and I think you know, obviously, 10 years of running an agency, i'm short, cutting a lot of things, but I thought I did have it in my mind. I'm like this is going to be a breeze, like I'm just going to snap my fingers and use all my techniques and like this thing's going to pop and I'll put some content out or host a workshop, or you know, i had 29 people attend this workshop the other week and I was like, oh, 100%, it's going to create some sales opportunities and whatever. And everyone's like, hey, great workshop, bye, i'm like what? Yeah, you know.

Been there, yeah.

And so, like you know, that was like me inviting a thousand people and you know all the people that attended sending them a personalized voice note saying I'm excited for you to be there. You know, and I had a 90, 95% attendance rate and I'm like, oh my God, attentive audience all the way through the whole hour of this workshop. Someone's going to buy something and everyone's like all right, cool, see you later. I'm like you know so, but I think it's like if you're not working towards something that you care about, it's very much harder to be motivated. I'm working like the amount that I used to work like six, seven years ago. I'm working like way more than before and I'm loving it. I'm loving finishing the day exhausted, because I know that I like tried some experiments, and so I think it's like because I'm working towards the thing that's important to me, i just like I'm ready to put in that energy. as long as I get my nap every day at two, then I can survive.

Exactly A bit of balance. But it makes sense that building a new company you have to put in the hours And even though you have maybe a little bit of a shortcut because of your previous business, you cannot skip all of it. That definitely makes sense. Yeah, So you work a lot more on your new business. You have an apartment in Mexico. How like it sounds like that really changed your travel lifestyle quite a bit, because I mean from visiting 10 countries in a year to now like having your apartment and just sitting down to work. Do you still travel or do you have any travels planned, or are you just planning to stay put and work on the business?

Yeah, still lots of travel. I was just in Canada for five weeks, mexico City for a few days, heading to Playa del Carmen in Tulsa, and then, yeah, toronto, montreal, croatia for family visits in a wedding, and then I'm going to Peru for like a luxury eight day trip and then I have my retreat. So I still have quite a bit planned, but what I will say is like there's something about waking up 80% of the days and being like I know what gym I'm going to, i know what I'm going to do, i know where my machine is, i'm going to come home, i know where my coffee machine is. Like I bought the magic bullets I can make my smoothies. I've got you know my couple places that I go to work during the day when I feel I don't want to be at home, and so there's something very calming for me about having that now. But I still, i still want to see the world And now, having friends in so many countries, i get calls all the time Hey, do you want to buy a motorcycle and drive through Botswana? I'm like, oh, maybe, but I'm feeling. I'm feeling more in control of the decisions and where I'm going, versus last year was like very scattered for me And, believe me, i enjoyed it. I had the time of my life, but I was so mentally exhausted when I got back to Mexico in January and still not knowing where I was going to end up when I got back in January and this having the space even if I'm only there 50% of the time has created a lot of mental peace for me, which is great.

Yeah, i mean I definitely hear you which is having your gym, having your coffee maker, having your smoothie maker, it just it is really nice And I think, especially when you work a lot and you're building something, it just means that you don't have to think about I don't know booking Airbnb's or not even booking Airbnb's, but checking in is everything. There is everything How I imagined it, like where do I go now, like where do we get food, you know, like all these basic things. Sometimes it's really nice to not have to worry about that. And I definitely agree that a home base is amazing. Yeah, that definitely makes sense. But I think also I personally think that there's also phases in for a lot of people in digital nomad life where maybe you're in a phase where you love all these things, like just figuring out all the Airbnb stuff and finding new supermarkets and new gyms every time. You know it can be super exciting. But then at one point when maybe your priorities change and you want to build a whole new business, then it definitely makes sense.

I think it's like, really important because I'm of such an extreme thinker, i'm such a like it's got to be this or it's got to be nothing. And I've really had to let go of that because going from having a suitcase to having just a carry on to like, you know, minimum three months anywhere to sometimes just two days somewhere. But I got stuck in this mindset of like it has to be only this or only that. And you're right, i think the seasons is the right word, like this season for me is hey, i'm going to check out six different countries, but I'm going to do it for a couple of weeks at a time And I'm always going to come back to this base And I'm mostly going to be here. I'm mostly going to be building my company, but, who knows, next year I'm like I'm looking at some you know co-livings in different places And I might do half a year in a stable place with, you know a mix of co-livings or certain things. And I think it's really important to listen to your body and listen to your mind, because we can get caught in this. Well, where do I have to go next? And it's frantic, it's exciting and it's cool, so it doesn't feel like it's tiring you, but I will say like as soon as I signed the lease for this apartment, i felt tired. For like two weeks I was exhausted because it was so much pent up craziness and so much like having to scavenge for the next place and getting rid of it. I didn't realize how tired my mind and body had become.

So yeah, yeah, and I think it's also okay to change your mind with this, with having a home base or not having a home base. Maybe you have a home base now and maybe a year from now you don't want it anymore. You know that's also fine. Or running an agency for 10 years and then deciding, you know what, i actually don't want to do this anymore. I will start a new business now. That's also okay, you know. So I think that's just really inspiring to hear And thank you so much for coming on a podcast to share that with us today. Mike, where can people find you if they want to learn more about you or your retreats?

Yeah, absolutely So. Me personally. On Instagram, at the mykmal M-I-K-E-M-O-L-L, i do post content about my events and workshops and businesses on there, and then if you are a marketer who's thinking, hey, i feel a little bit stuck in growing right now and I want to create, for me, it's about creating a great business, but also having the balance and also having stability in your life, and so if that resonates and you want to check out more, it's MikeMallco slash events with a mess.

Okay, we'll also make sure to add those links to the show notes. And when you go to the show notes, you can also find a link to the previous episode that Mike and I recorded, so that you can also listen to that one. If you're wondering like, okay, what was life like a year ago for Mike? and then you can listen to this one how it is now, you probably already did when you made it this far into the episode. So, thank you for being here today, mike, thank you for listening to this episode. See you next time.

All right, thanks so much.

And that's it for today. Thank you so much for listening. I appreciate it very, very much. I would appreciate it even more if you could leave a review on Apple Podcasts for me. That way, more people can find this podcast, more people can hear the inspiring stories that we're sharing, and the more people we can impact for the better. So, thank you so much if you are going to leave a review. I really appreciate you And I will see you in the next episode.