Transcript
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Hey nomads.
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Welcome to Digital Nomad Stories, the podcast.
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My name is Anne Klaassen and, together with my co-host, Kendra Hasse, we interview digital nomads.
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Why?
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Because we want to share stories of how they did it.
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We talk about remote work, online business, location independency, freelancing, travel and, of course, the digital nomad lifestyle.
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Freelancing travel and, of course, the digital nomad lifestyle.
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Do you want to know more about us and access all previous episodes?
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Visit digitalnomadstoriesco.
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All right, let's go into today's episode.
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Hey, hey nomads.
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Welcome to a new episode of Digital Nomad Stories.
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Today I'm here with Ores Zub.
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He is an entrepreneur from Ukraine.
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He's visited 134 countries I can't believe it Many of those he has been working remotely from.
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So a very experienced nomad.
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Ores, welcome to the show.
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I'm really excited to have you here today.
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Thanks a lot, annie.
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It's a pleasure to be here and, yeah, I'm super excited as well.
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Yeah.
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So to kick us off, can you tell us a little bit more about what you do like?
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What do you do for work?
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I mentioned that you're an entrepreneur, but what?
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What does that look like?
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So my main focus at the moment is developing a travel tech company called Nomad Media.
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We are basically providing tools for travelers about mapping their journeys.
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They're like trip planning, tracking their trips and what's the most important probably, is connecting with all other travelers around the world.
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So we are now kind of having over 35,000 users and trying to develop this in a sustainable and prospect way.
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So this is like the career wise.
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I am kind of in this travel blogging, online media, digital nomad topic for the last at least a decade.
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So basically, I was already a functioning digital nomad long before the term and the entire movement became widespread.
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So I believe somewhere in 2015 or 16, when the first digital nomad events started to appear in Europe, I was reading about this and then like realizing, like, oh, like this is what I'm doing for five years already.
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Exactly people call it digital nomadism, you know, so this kind of came naturally, but obviously everything starts from the desire to travel, to see the world and yeah, so I'm living this lifestyle probably since 2011,.
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I would say so like a classic digital nomadism, but obviously I started traveling long before, since my late teens.
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Yeah, exactly, that's so cool, Awesome.
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What did you do before you started your tech company?
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It's worth saying that I was invited as a partner to a tech company.
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So my business partner, harry Mitsidis, who is one of the world's biggest travelers and probably the person who has seen the most places on our earth and visited every country in the world twice, he actually founded the project and then, because of probably our good friendship and my tech background, we kind of matched together very well.
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There is also a third partner who is a Polish guy, daniel, and he's our tech director.
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So we kind of everybody works within their superpowers.
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In terms of my previous background, I was studying law in Ukraine.
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I am from the city of Huryvyi, which is an amazing town in Western Ukraine also, with a very vibrant tech community and the most visited place in Ukraine in general.
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So it's kind of the westernmost city in our country, soconnected, you can drive within a few hours and visit at least five European countries, this one.
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Then, during university, when I was studying law, I participated in many international student exchange programs, which basically led me to the situation when, the time when I graduated, I visited around 30 countries in Europe.
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We are talking about like early, early 20s and then, when most normal people just get a job and start their corporate career.
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I decided I want to see the world a little bit more before settling down and I did a few professional internships in different countries around the world which basically you know when I completely realized that I want to continue that lifestyle and decided to go more into the tech sphere.
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So, because standard legal job would not give you this flexibility you know, like being a lawyer, you have to kind of connect to the legislature in particular countries and you cannot really travel unless you have some international human rights stuff or some mergers and acquisitions on the corporate international level Stenor Hristova 1.0.
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So I was considering those options but eventually found another way.
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I found the website called ukrainetravelsecretscom, which became kind of like an online travel guide around Ukraine and, as you remember, in 2012, ukraine was hosting the European Football Championship, so there was a big demand of information online and I kind of, you know, started to figure out how things work online and this business grew into a travel agency, which was pretty fine.
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And then 2014, russia invaded Ukraine and the entire tourism industry collapsed in my country, even though Ukraine was one of the most visited countries in the world by then.
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You know like we're talking about 17-20 million tourists arriving to Ukraine annually.
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So then I had to figure things out and with my entrepreneurial spirit and some experience and knowledge before that, I started a Ukrainian language lifestyle blog, openmindcomua.
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This was kind of the rise of the lifestyle topics worldwide, I would say, where I was trying to combine self-help topics, travel and business, because those all matching together very well.
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So we are talking about the classic digital nomad combination here, kind of at the same time when digital nomadism was already rising up globally.
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So I mean, that would be probably a very strong statement, but I can tell like I'm a father of Ukrainian digital nomads, if it's possible to tell.
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So yeah, cool, yeah, yeah.
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So it's kind of the entire vibe, entire community was growing up in Ukraine.
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We were having events connecting with other digital nomad communities all around the world, which eventually grew into a pretty solid membership platform with a SaaS subscription business model.
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And yeah, I've been just traveling around the world hosting events, doing all the types of interesting ventures.
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And in 2022, russia invaded Ukraine in a big time, you know.
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So I kind of paused my previous business ventures because there were much more important things to do.
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I enrolled as a war reporter, so I spent up to three months on the front line, also connecting local NGOs in Ukraine with foreign organizations and assisting media crews in Ukraine.
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So that was my contribution at that point.
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It was mostly about the war.
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It's a difficult stuff.
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We can talk, if you want, in that direction as well.
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And then I realized that we need to do some more, also allied side at the same time.
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So let's say, the first year of invasion was mostly about war, about disclosing the war crimes of the Russian Federation that they committed in Ukraine and establishing meaningful connections with the foreign organizations to build this bridge and attract as much aid as possible.
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And then I realized that my country is starting to have an image of this kind of dark side war, rubble, tragedy, suffering and I thought this is not how I want Ukraine to have an image globally, because there is life happening beyond the battlefield and this is the life that is worth fighting for, battlefield, you know, and this is the life that is worth fighting for.
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So I realized that the more people will with it Ukraine from around the world, the better it is for the country and better it is for the good in in our world.
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Because everything starts with personal connection, with personal meeting, with personal handshake and so on, and on the second year of full-scale invasion in 2023.
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Actually, the last year, I was mostly focusing on showing the life in Ukraine you know that this was very important and attracting people physically coming to Ukraine, which is kind of, you know, the second loop of a travel scenario that I started 10 years before, but obviously in a much more different perspective and in a much more meaningful way.
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So it's not about the tourism, it was rather about establishing connections and about education.
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Yeah, and at the same time, I was offered like we did the partnership with Nomadmania time I was offered like we did the partnership with Nomadmania.
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So things started to go one by one and those are mostly my focuses.
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It's like developing a tech travel tech company and also attracting people to Ukraine and establishing connections between Ukraine and organizations and people all around the world.
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That's basically two like my dual focus at the moment yeah, interesting.
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So very international focus, very much bringing people together, whether it's travelers or yeah, like all your, all your efforts have a lot to do with that.
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That's really interesting.
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We actually have in common that I also went to law school, so that part, that first part of your story we actually have that in common.
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I also, after law school, I school, I went the Mergers and Acquisitions way, but then also decided not to continue and also started traveling.
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So that's interesting to hear that you had a similar path just a few years before me.
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That's really cool, cool.
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So can you share a little bit more about what your travel life looks like now?
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Where are you now and is this a base or you know?
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How fast do you travel?
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How much do you travel?
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Yeah.
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So basically during university time I already explained it was mostly some short-term exchange programs.
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Then there were a few long-term internships.
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The last one was in India where I spent six months and this was like the first experience outside of Europe, completely immersing myself in a different culture.
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And you know, look within six months in India you can see a lot, you can reconsider a lot and so on.
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So basically after that I had a pause for two years until I kind of set up my lifestyle and finances so I could actually travel.
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At the same time I met my current wife.
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When we started dating.
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We kind of embraced this lifestyle that you spend summer in Europe and then winter, like birds, you fly somewhere to exotic destinations.
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So we were living at about August because my wife has a birthday on the 1st of November, so we were trying for her birthday to be like somewhere warm when the weather starts getting shitty in Europe, you know.
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And then we were usually coming back by Easter.
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Easter is another like it's an important festival, it's important holiday in Ukraine.
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You meet the family and the weather is already getting nice.
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It's kind of, you know, like a new cycle of life.
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So this style we maintained for a good six years, I would say, starting from 2012 until 2016 or 17, I would say so.
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And then, because my business grew and the team grew and responsibilities became bigger and also the airline connection improved a lot, I think globally the prices just became cheaper around 2015-17.
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So it started to became travel more active.
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I kind of formed a base in my native city, lviv.
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I rented a small office just for myself, even though the entire team was remote, but I was doing this like multiple trips to different countries and coming back for my base, and this was the.
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And then COVID started.
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Yeah, and then COVID started.
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So before COVID, my pace was approximately around 10 to 15 new countries per year and I don't suggest anyone to do more than 10 new countries per year if you want to maintain it long term and approximately 50-50 between the time spending in Ukraine and Europe as opposed to the rest of the world.
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You know, this was kind of that, the balance, and I found it to be pretty comfortable for me.
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Obviously, things slowed down during the COVID, even though we continued traveling just less countries and more and more time within countries where you could actually travel.
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So, like an example would be, we spent four months in the united states with my wife just traveling, you know, or as soon as any country was opening up, we were flying there, like colombia, like dominican republic, turkey, you know, and and many more this one.
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And then, during the first year of the full-scale invasion, I didn't travel almost at all.
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So it was the first year in BK that I didn't visit any new country.
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Obviously for such a traveler it's a tragedy, but we understand there were much more important stuff.
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So I was mostly traveling in the Eastern European countries, establishing connections with media, with organizations and so on.
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Same stuff was happening last year and in this year I made my first round the world trip.
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So basically I left Europe in November and then we did like, let's say, starting from Web Summit in Lisbon in early in November, from Web Summit in Lisbon in early November with my wife, we did Egypt, then Taiwan, then Bangladesh, then Myanmar, then China, then Japan, then Canada, germany and now I'm here in Spain.
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So it went actually interesting way.
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It's a full around the world trip.
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But it was not mainly for the travel reason.
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It's still connected with those priorities that I tell you right, it's like in Japan, in Taiwan, we were establishing connections with some diplomatic stuff there.
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For example, in Bangkok, I had a simple base where you could join the region.
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In Myanmar, I was visiting the country during the civil war that they are going through now.
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In Bangladesh, I visited the largest refugee camp of Rohingya people that are expelled from their native lands in Myanmar.
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In China, we did the Nomadmania meeting.
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In Canada, I did meetings in newly established Ukrainian communities that started growing there heavily.
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So it all comes together.
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So I would say that nowadays I still do travel for curiosity, like I really want to visit every country in the world and I kind of go that way, but this became secondary, comparing to traveling with purpose.
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Yeah, and that's what I'm doing at the moment yeah, that's actually really interesting.
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So, um, yeah, before it was really about the traveling right, about seeing new, new countries and, you know, seeing a lot traveling when, when you could travel, and then now it really shifted.
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Um, what else has changed or kind of shifted in your travels, because I can imagine, you know, 10 years ago probably other things also looked very different.
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Do you have a different travel style now or any anything that you learned or changed?
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yeah, like, as you mature, you know, I I realized I'm not the same backpacker guy who started traveling in Southeast Asia in 2012-2013.
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This is mostly defined by financial capacity, which is different than it used to be 10 years ago.
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Maybe you're getting older and you don't want to squeeze this five euro from a hotel or something else, right, and also, there is just much more responsibility.
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So, in order to be more focused, more productive, you need to raise your level of comfort, which doesn't mean I'm traveling with yachts, for example, or living in the mansions, but still I would always prefer to have a desk, the working desk, in the hotel room where I go, or I would rather, you know, spend a little bit more for accommodation in order to do what I need to do.
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Basically, right, so, so, so the budget went up, the comfort level went up.
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Hotels, I don't think I am really into.
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I still like to take, I like to see the monuments, the, the historical sites.
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You know this is still there.
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I play tennis in every country where I go.
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I'm some professional tennis player and I've been playing since childhood, and then you know when, there, when you engage very actively in any kind of sport, by the time you reach adulthood let's say you are, you are finishing high school and you about to enter university.
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You have to decide are you continuing with the professional sport or you just go a normal, you know, career way?
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Yeah, so, even though I was pretty good, but not the best.
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So I mean, if you want to be top in tennis you just have to go all in right.
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So I kept tennis as a as a hobby, and then you know other like travel happened, have fun, some other things.
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So I kind of stopped playing tennis.
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But then when I reached 30 years old, I, in some of the bars in my city I met occasionally the friends with whom I played tennis in the childhood and they asked like why don't you join us?
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Like we are still practicing tennis, at least just for fun.
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So I did came back.
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I did come back and that was one of the best decisions in my life, because now I always travel with a tennis racket.
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I see I have a pimple over here, and the reason why I came to Barcelona now is actually because there are three tennis tournaments in a row in my league, which is ITF Masters, which is kind of in between the professional and amateur leagues.
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So it's a pretty serious level.
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It's the league where professional tennis players retire, so you can expect like a really high level of game here.
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And yeah, like since I traveled, I started to realize that tennis is among the most popular sports in the world.
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So basically, you have tennis clubs everywhere and the most interesting is that used to play tennis in a very, let's say, special destinations.
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You know.
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So I played tennis in Myanmar, in Bangladesh, in India, in Haiti, in African countries, like in Togo, in Cameroon, and this is like a really, really unique experience because this provides you an insight into community.
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It's a fast track, you know, because as soon as you show up in a tennis club, you start like you, you see your tribe, basically, and this is like really cool.
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So that's what I'm also, what is among the priorities in the travel approach for me?
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Yeah, I think that's really cool and I think it's actually so important to have a hobby that is more to travel, because I think many people I meet many digital nomads their hobby is travel because, you know, that was our hobby before we started nomading.
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But now it's not just a hobby, it's literally life.
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So if you don't have any other hobbies, it's I don't know's it gets kind of boring, I think, if that's the only thing you do.
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So I think it's so good to hear that you have rediscovered tennis and that that works so well for you, and I think also, you know, as nomads, it's super important to stay active.
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When I started nomading, I did not focus on this at all and I think that was a big mistake actually, because I didn't enjoy a lot of the things I wanted to do as much as I could have, because you know like hikes are only fun if you have a decent fitness level.
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I learned that the hard way many times.
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So you know, I think I think it is so important to also stay active and have have a hobby and you know, if that's the same thing, that sounds really good.
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And I can only imagine how cool it is to play with locals in all destinations around the world.
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That's really cool.
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What were some of your favorite experiences that you had?
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Or favorite countries that you visited Anything that you can share there, because I mean you've been everywhere, oh yeah, yeah, it's you know.
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Or favorite countries that you visited, anything, anything that you can share there because I mean you've been, you've been everywhere oh yeah, yeah, it's.
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You know, asking about the favorite destination or a favorite memory from a traveler, from a big traveler, is like asking a favorite, you know, painting from a painter, you know, or a movie, and so I think it's possible to combine it with watching movies.
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So I mean, there are so many great movies around, right, and when you watch this movie and if it's a great movie, you're like, yeah, this is a great movie, I really love it.
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And then, as soon as the movie finished, you are still under those impressions, you start sharing the movie title with all your friends and you are like raving about it and so on.
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But then the time goes by and you see another great movie and you kind of like forget about the previous and then you're focused into that one.
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So I think in my case this is kind of the way.
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So whenever I travel, I really try to process all this material, all this travel through me and I really enjoy the moment.
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For example, now I'm in Barcelona and it's already my third week.
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I'm leaving tomorrow and I really feel like it's a great city to live and I think I could easily stay here for more time.
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But I remember the same thoughts I had one month ago, when I was visiting vancouver, for example, and two months ago, the same feelings I had in shanghai or in bangkok, and so on.
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So so this goes on, you know, and it's kind of it's part of this travel bug that that you, you keep on going.
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I could stay, but I go, and tomorrow I'm flying tomorrow to syria wow, I'm really excited about this as well.
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So they're just like too much too many things to tell and too many stories and too many countries around there yeah.
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So why do you keep traveling?
00:23:22.642 --> 00:23:24.705
Can you go a little bit deeper into that?
00:23:24.705 --> 00:23:27.290
Because you know I understand right.
00:23:27.290 --> 00:23:35.493
There was the curiosity at first and then now it's more about the purpose in terms of your career and your business.
00:23:35.493 --> 00:23:42.073
But what is it that makes you still excited to go on that flight tomorrow?
00:23:43.740 --> 00:24:01.181
One of my friends with whom I he was my best mate on the wedding and then we traveled with him in india and central america and a bunch of other places we were once I don't know we were probably having a beer and hanging out sour and hammocks and he told me, like you know what oris?
00:24:01.181 --> 00:24:18.371
Travel is probably the best thing you can do with your life, with your time, and you clearly understand this, and all most people who travel and who who listen to this, they probably also understand very well like it's just a cool stuff to do.
00:24:18.371 --> 00:24:22.326
Everybody has their own ideas why they do it.
00:24:22.326 --> 00:24:30.445
You know, I would say like this is a combination of different things, of of curiosity, of ability to do something new.
00:24:30.445 --> 00:24:36.095
I feel myself very good in motion as well.
00:24:36.095 --> 00:24:52.628
Your skills kind of become sharper, like I mean, if you go to some difficult destinations and you're there on your own, your mind becomes much sharper, and also it's it's access to knowledge.
00:24:52.628 --> 00:24:53.329
You know it's.
00:24:53.329 --> 00:25:00.391
It's access to knowledge like like I tell everybody, like I'm going to syria, people are crazy, like how are you going to do there?
00:25:00.391 --> 00:25:00.832
And so on.
00:25:01.192 --> 00:25:01.980
I am from ukraine.
00:25:01.980 --> 00:25:05.564
Ukraine now is considered to be the most dangerous place on earth.
00:25:05.564 --> 00:25:17.415
But the life goes in most parts of the country like fine, like all my family lives in Ukraine, I live in Ukraine, I am coming back, business is operating.
00:25:17.415 --> 00:25:29.207
It's just from time to time there are fucking Russian rockets flying around, you know, and many people die on the front line.
00:25:29.207 --> 00:25:31.269
But behind that, I mean life goes on flying around.
00:25:31.269 --> 00:25:34.152
You know, and many people die on the front line, but behind that I mean life goes on.
00:25:34.152 --> 00:25:35.994
And once you know all these different parts of life, you become calmer.
00:25:35.994 --> 00:25:38.217
You've seen much more than other people have seen.
00:25:38.277 --> 00:25:48.380
You experience much more it makes you the person who has more abilities, more skills and more understanding.
00:25:48.380 --> 00:25:50.223
Right, many lessons that you've learned through travel sounds like for sure.
00:25:50.223 --> 00:25:54.512
Do you think you'll keep traveling forever, or how do you see that?
00:25:54.593 --> 00:26:00.089
the light will show, but at the moment, uh, there is no end in sight.
00:26:00.089 --> 00:26:02.693
I mean, it's just I just feel very good.
00:26:02.693 --> 00:26:06.269
Yeah, obviously there are like limits how far you go.
00:26:06.269 --> 00:26:06.991
You have to test.
00:26:06.991 --> 00:26:15.890
So, for example, at one year probably 2017, because I keep track of my travel, I'm kind of geek on the places, on how you travel.
00:26:15.890 --> 00:26:17.025
I have this like map.
00:26:17.220 --> 00:26:23.053
In Nomadmania, one of our main features is actually creating a map of visited places.
00:26:23.053 --> 00:26:26.243
You know so we're really picky with all of that, creating a map of visited places.
00:26:26.243 --> 00:26:27.486
You know so, we're really picky with all of that.
00:26:27.486 --> 00:26:38.347
And I did like 20 something new countries and like probably 35 countries in total in the year, and this is insane, you know like I know people who travel at that pace.
00:26:38.347 --> 00:26:41.967
But this is not my style, you know, I kind of combined.
00:26:42.359 --> 00:26:50.588
So an example would be I was in Ukraine and then, from Ukraine, I did a very important project there.
00:26:51.368 --> 00:27:11.148
We actually, together with Nomadmania, we organized the first visit to Ukraine of non-diplomats, non-aid workers and not politicians like travelers, and we went all the way to the front line to show our respect and to show the support with the local communities and we were testing the memory tour.
00:27:11.449 --> 00:27:28.035
Then we organized an event I mean it was a really cool and very difficult project to do and then you know the the style was pretty interesting because from there I flew to Karabakh, which is another conflict zone when the Caucasus between Azerbaijan and Armenia.
00:27:28.035 --> 00:27:39.570
Then I crossed to Eastern Turkey, to Turkish Kurdistan, which is another very interesting area for understanding how geopolitics work, how cultures fit or not fit together.
00:27:39.570 --> 00:27:48.371
Then I did the Web Summit, which is a business trip, and then we had some small holiday with my wife in Egypt.
00:27:48.371 --> 00:27:56.673
Then was Bangladesh, another humanitarian, let's say, visit.
00:27:56.673 --> 00:28:20.419
Then there was a base for one month in Bangkok, then short trips to China and in Japan, and then crossing the entire Canada, visiting a family, and then flying to Berlin, renting a camper van, driving all the way down to Madrid and settling down in Barcelona for three weeks.
00:28:20.419 --> 00:28:24.811
So it's kind of a combination of everything and this fits for me well.
00:28:28.460 --> 00:28:28.941
Yeah, very cool, awesome.
00:28:28.941 --> 00:28:29.844
I love that you also did the camper van trip.
00:28:29.864 --> 00:28:33.181
that sounds really exciting, oh, yeah, I am planning to do much more.
00:28:33.181 --> 00:28:34.083
We actually we like it.
00:28:34.083 --> 00:28:44.532
So with my wife we did camper van trips in Australia, united States, and now I did in Europe with my father, and I think I mean we just keep on going with that.
00:28:44.532 --> 00:28:48.163
It's a it's a great way to travel awesome, perfect.
00:28:48.625 --> 00:28:50.449
Well, that's super exciting, oris.
00:28:50.449 --> 00:28:52.661
Thank you so much for sharing your story with us today.
